Eavestaff 1823 - any further advise?

[owenow]

hi there!

I know nothing about pianos but I play a little (not graded) and came across this Eavestaff Piano in an antique store. I was just wondering if anyone could tell me any information on the piano based on the pictures. I know you can't value the piano nor advise based on the conditions of string etc.... but any advise would be great

Thanks
Owen

Pic1

[owenow]

another image

[owenow]

another image

[owenow]

Image4

[owenow]

Image5

[owenow]

ps I forgot to mention... I looked for the "badge" with its details but couldn't find it... I was a bit weary to touch it to much!

[Colin Nicholson]

Hi there, I remember you enquiring recently about a Rogers grand piano in the same shop?.... and that I went into some detail about ''badges'' ....? well this info is applied to all pianos.... some dont have them, so I am surprised you have asked the same question! You will need to get a piano technician to check this over really. We cannot comment on its condition, build, playability, tone etc just by photos. Alot of pianos look nice from the exterior, but I have also explained back in March about the 'beware' signs.

I am also not sure what you mean by ''badge'' ??.... and what 'details' are you looking for? please be more specific.

Can you tell me your interpretation of what a 'badge' is?.... or send us a photo of what you refer to as being a badge? (or badge shaped)

Pianos dont always have 'badges' - there's no such term (what I think you may mean) sticky plastic badges, metal plaques, raised wooden plinths in the shape of a round or square badge etc..... forget that impression!! and many pianos dont have anything on the soundboard.... what you see is what you've got - simple as that. If you look at a Steinway or Bechstein grand for example, well, thats a different story.

All pianos are different when it comes to ''badges''.... some have decals on the soundboard, others have raised iron lettering on the gold cast frame (like Steinway), and many dont have anything at all. The best was to view a grand inside is the remove the music rest completely - this may reveal another name, serial number, model number.... however if the piano is labelled with a ''badge'' - it will usually be in the form of a decal or transfer kit laid onto the cast iron frame, soundboard, tuning pin area or anywhere inside. You wont find simply a ''badge'' like there is on a car! - with the name, model number, dates etc.... thats not how pianos are identified. Hope that helps....

On many pianos, they dont have 'details' inside it, and the middle of the market piano like Eavestaff dont have these showing - but instead, quite a nice ornate decal printed on the cast iron frame - thats it! .... thats the badge..... in the form of lettering. If it has a model number, this may be shown elsewhere - but not usually all neatly presented and rounded off together on a badge in one place on the piano.

On this piano, the ''badge'' is quite clear what you have photographed.... this is the green decal (transfer) with the name 'Eavestaff London'' on the cast iron frame.... thats the badge so to speak. The piano and its badge look genuine enough, but some Eavestaff pianos kept labelling quite simple.

The ''badge'' name on the fallboard is also genuine - its the makers name.... so long as this name appears somewhere else inside the piano preferrably, this is fine - and confirms that this is the makers name. Eavestaff were more popular in the 1930's with their production of the mini piano, sometimes called 'Eavestaff pianette' with only 6 octaves (73 keys) - popular around the art dec period, and some pianos had chrome banding, and it folded up like a school desk.


Just wondered why you typed "Eavestaff 1823" in the subject heading? Did you think this was the age of the piano?

Cant really comment much apart from it looking OK from a distance.

Best to remove the music rest completely, and take a photo of the strings & tuning pins close up & clearly focussed - if the strings & pins are rusty, leave it alone.

You may also find a serial number.

How much is this piano in UK£ ? (I see a price ticket on the music rest)

Just be careful buying from antique dealers, they sometimes dont know anything about pianos, and put a high price tag on.

[owenow]

Hi Colin

Firstly thank you once again for your reply. My apologies for my stupid question regarding badges as I do now remember you telling me that piano's don't always have them! I always just think that piano's are like cars, that they have some identifying "badge" or whatever which will tell details like year of build, model/serial number, batch number or whatever. Just so the piano can be "tracked" or something.

As I mentioned and I am sure you can tell, I know nothing about pianos. I wish I had someone like you next to me when I go and look at these things. I just want something old, weathered that has a bit of character and plays ok. I just like to have a bang on the piano (I am grade-less) now and then but want it to look like a nice piece in the house if that makes sense.

Thanks for the info on the piano, I was wondering why it looked like a "miniature" grand piano, I quiet liked that as I do not have that much room in the house.

Definitely like your tip about looking at the strings and tuning pins. I will learn to do that in more detail (pretty obvious but I never do it)

The only reason I typed "Eavestaff 1823" as the topic is because that was what was printed on the piano. No other reason.

Finally they are asking around £1200 for the Piano.

I emailed the antique house to see if they can find any more details from the owner. Its the type of place where people leave their stuff to sell and the auction house takes a commission.

Cheers for everything!
Owen

[Colin Nicholson]

Hi Owen

The date 1823 is when the company Eavestaff became established, or around the time when the factory gates opened - nothing to do with the age of this piano. Most piano companies included their established date inside just for provenance & esteem reasons. Other dates were sometimes shown like exhibitions, patent dates and for example Bluthner grand pianos had a long list of dates on soundboard decals and sometimes showing in decal form various awards, coins and medals.

The date of any piano is not usually displayed, but instead it is translated into a serial number. These are approx. between 3 and 7 digits in length, and in black lettering, 2cm in height. The serial number is not the date, and is often placed near the ''badge'' - not on it. Under the music rest, there may be a serial number.

Grand pianos come under 3 different types, depending on their length. Ignore the width and height - these are usually uniform on all grand pianos - but the length determines it 'type' - measured in feet & inches from the back of the piano's lid (with lid closed) to the front of the keyboard.

Shorter than 5ft 8 in = BABY GRAND

Between 5ft 8in and 8ft 10in = GRAND

Longer than 8ft 10in = CONCERT GRAND

I would estimate that this piano is about 4ft in length, so its a baby grand. Pianos around the 1930's became very popular in this size, and conveniently fitted in the family home. However, to a reputable pianist - the length of a grand piano is proportional to the length of the bass strings, and with them being so short, the tone of the bass strings was never that good. The longer the grand piano, the better quality of sound - and a higher price paid!

The price isnt too bad for a shop, but I would still get it checked over. If you want to just 'bash' a tune out and stand the odd pint of beer on it, then fine.... go ahead, however, if you feel the piano is an investment - and a ''life time purchase'' - and you want it sound and play as a piano, then you must get the strings & pins checked, along with the wrest pin torque, and condition of the soundboard, bridges and internal mechanism. No adequate photo can show this, but a detailed on-site inspection carried out by a qualified piano tuner/ technician.

However, by its looks alone from a distance, it ticks all the boxes so far (even though the strings cannot be seen very well due to shadows etc) - and the name, decals and design are pretty much OK. Even if you were to then show us another photo of the strings (like the Rogers) - and they were also heavily rusted.... why would you send a photo in the first place??.... you know what to do!

If you are prepared to pay around £1K for a piano, or slightly more - then removal costs.... for simple 'peace of mind' and assurance - its worth another $140 to get it checked over. I know the Oz dollar equivalent, because my colleague in NSW charges this for a tuning - around £100 UK Sterling.

The End!

[owenow]

Colin

Just a quick note simply to say thank you. Your time in writing the reply is greatly appreciated, you really are fantastic. As I am building a house which will not be ready until about a years time, I have time and I just get excited when I see these old baby grand pianos

If you have any good mates in Sydney that have the experience you have, please do forward them my details as I would love to have a "buyer" involved in the process who knows what they are looking at etc.

Anyway most importantly, THANK YOU