Buying a piano on ebay/gumtree

[jabbag]

Hi, I've been looking to buy a piano for my children to learn on and have been looking on ebay and gumtree. Nothing ever seems to show for where I live but I've found two ending soon that seem ok but I know nothing about pianos except for the research I've done on the web. I've used ths guide for advice on makes http://www.pianoshop.co.uk/info/ratings.php

I am wondering if someone could look at these two auctions and offer advice as to whether they seem ok? The two auctions are:

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/230757665245? ... 1423.l2649

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/150775389581? ... 1423.l2649

The first one is closer to me in distance as I live in South Wales. Any advice would be appreciated.

[NewAge]

I'll leave the experts to comment on the potential dangers of buying a piano without first seeing or trying it.
It may help to know what your top budget is for a piano.

However, here are a few basic golden-rules.
- If it's not overstrung and under-damped, forget it!
- If it's not in tune you cannot fully appreciate what it sounds like.
-If it's not been tuned for years, tread very carefully!!
- Do not purchase in a hurry, take your time. Weeks, months, even longer to get an appreciation of how different pianos can be - even of the same make and model.
- Consider buying from a reputable dealer - you will get some guarantee which is important.
- Do not buy without consulting an independent tuner/technician, who will view the piano with you and provide a written report -
this is invaluable, dismiss this advise and your new piano could turn into a money-pit in order to make it really playable.
Read, read, and read as much as you can, from this forum and elsewhere.
Here are interesting past links.
http://www.piano-tuners.org/piano-forum ... f=3&t=9513

http://www.piano-tuners.org/piano-forum ... f=3&t=9459

http://www.piano-tuners.org/piano-forum ... f=3&t=9500

An excellent general guide:-
http://www.piano-tuners.org/piano-forum ... ?f=8&t=916
http://www.piano-tuners.org/piano-forum ... ?f=8&t=843

Young children are often very keen to learn piano (or other instruments) and a short time after, frequently loose interest. A costly mistake when one has bought an acoustic piano. Have you considered renting one for 6 months or a year? Or if your budget is particularly low, you may be advised to consider a digital piano.

[Colin Nicholson]

Some good advice there Newage.

Apart from Mark Goodwin's pianos and a few other good makes of piano, Ebay has now become a breeding ground for junk. Not only are many of the pianos WELL over 100 years old, many of them are not serviceable or tunable any more. Unfortunately this can bring a bad name to those pianos out there that are genuinely worth looking at.

Also, many people owning pianos dont even know what to call them!!.... and recently, someone called the design of their piano 'overstrung' when it was in fact 'straight strung' . The buyer tried to get his money back, but there was no going back. The seller claimed that he had made a mistake...... the costly mistake to the tune of over 500 pounds!!.... since it was what I charged to put the piano somewhere near.

The hopkinson on ebay here appears to be straight-strung and NOT overstrung, like the seller has advertised (oops!) - could be a typing error, or they are simply guessing, or they know, but 'what the hell - they wont get their money back!!'. The left hand key block is very small - the same size as the right key block, which shows its straight-strung. However, I may be wrong - but I would ask to see a photo of the inside by emailing them privately. However, many cant be bothered.... or they start to act stupid all of a sudden, and dont know what to do.

Anyway - I would definitely check that the piano IS overstrung, and under-damped - but no one knows its condition even if it is of the preferred design.

Remember that a piano is ALOT harder to sell then to buy. If you then buy a piano that turns out to be a shed, there is no going back - and then you have to start thinking of lovely words like 'Piano' to sell it again. .... and kids will also be very upset because Mummy and Daddy didnt know what they were doing. Agree?

The 'Piano' ???? .... oh yeh, its a Bentley!! ..... well, would you buy something IN THE DARK!!!!! ?????

Personally, I would never buy blind/ unseen in reality/ untouched & unheard.... and anything around the 1.00 to 200 pound bracket is risky. The names are OK, but one knows the condition of these pianos inside.

I have written an interesting article (with pictures) titled 'EBOYS AUCTION' !! (PM me for it if you wish.... its a word doc).... and basically, here are two items for sale...

1. BEAUTIFUL Victorian China cabinet, wood inlay, scrolled legs.... china cups & saucers inside broken. QUICK SALE: 100 pounds.

2. BEAUTIFUL Victorian Upright Piano, brass candle holders, never been tuned for years.... dont know much about pianos...... FREE to a good home.

So then.... question? which one of those 2 items are you most likely to buy?; which one attracts to you the most?

I guess the piano is more attractive because its FREE! (and there is no such thing as a free piano, trust me!) ....
Personally, I would buy the china cabinet, and just throw the china out.
However, have you seen the inside of the piano? Note that the interior has not been mentioned or photographed...... (and so the story continues) ......

Find out what the piano was actually like when it arrived in a customer's home; how much damage there was inside, and how much it eventually cost to then be able to tune it....... poor kids also suffered, at the expense of their parent's lack of knowledge....

[jabbag]

Thank you both for your very comprehensive replies. I've now decided not to buy a piano on ebay. My budget is up to £1000 so I'm going to try a local reputable piano shop that's been recommended to me. I'm also going to look at renting one for a year and will enquire at the piano shop as I think renting one for a year might be a better option, something I'd not considered before. Thanks again for the detailed advice.

[Colin Nicholson]

Renting is a good option, maybe with a view to a purchase later on. Just be aware though that renting a piano is not like renting a car. Many retailers may not use their new stock of pianos, especially if children are using it (or generally in a family home), as with respect, scratches & other damage can be made; so you may be offered a 2nd hand piano. Also asking about tuning - this should be included in the cost around every 6 months a visit would be necessary. You may also be informed where & where not to keep a piano - eg away from direct heat & light.... so a few terms & conditions may need to be met. If you do decide, and whatever is on offer, always check the whole piano for any previous scratches/ damage etc. and make sure it is recorded on the rental agreement, so you are not liable.

Hope that helps....

[jabbag]

Thanks again for all the advice so far. In the end we decided against renting as we want to buy one. We've looked in several outlets and have found a baby grand we really like but wonder if someone can confirm what the dealer is telling us. It's a 4 year told Bentley which we're being told was manufacturered by Mason & Hamlin and made in the US. I've queried this with others and have not been able to verify this. As far as I can tell Bentley was bought by Intermusic and their baby grand pianos are made in China. The price is around £4k (including stool, delivery, setting up etc). I would appreciate any advice on this.

[dancarney]

Very suspect about the M&H connection.

Modern Bentley pianos are Chinese. As far as I know, M&H now use iron plates from China, and perhaps they share the same plate manufacturer. That's the only link I can see.

Many dealers make all kinds of crap up; judge the instrument by its own qualities, make sure there is a nice warranty, and you could always invite an independent tuner to view it with you as they could verify what prepping has been done/what needs to be done.

Best of luck!

[dorsetpiano]

I started looking for a baby grand about a year ago and looked at ebay. I came to the following conclusions

1. You need to go and see/play it. That will cost perhaps a day of your time and fuel costs to somewhere in the UK.
2. You really should get it evaluated by a professional (depending on where it's located how do you achieve this and how much?)
3 You might then bid for it and not win the auction, so back to item one.
4. You will need to get it moved, lets budget £100+
5. You need to get it tuned and any remedial work on the action / cabinet etc - another £100?
6. You might find that you have "bought a pup" unless you did item 2 in which case you might need to spend another £100 on a removal firm to take it to the dump and start again at item 1.

I decided to let my piano tuner (David Chitson of Weymouth Pianos) find me something. I called him, told him roughly what I was looking for and about a month later had a call from him saying that he had a superb Steinberg Berlin baby grand coming in and was I interested? He gave a personal guarantee on it and had checked it all out and did a trade in on my upright.
I am sure that I could have bought cheaper privately but buying a piano especially a grand is probably more difficult than buying a car.

[vernon]

That's the sensible way to do it.
If you want a piano go to an expert.
If you've got a broken leg go to a physician not a witchdoctor.

[joseph]

Yeah, always when buying a piano, ask an expert. If you find a piano in private sale, take a tuner with you.

You don't want to end up with a useless pile of junk that you've spent money on. Even if it's a famous brand, sometimes you have to be prepared to spend thousands on them to get them up to good condition.

For £1000 you'd probably be looking at a digital piano, to be honest, although you might be lucky.

[vernon]

you'll get plenty of good serviceable pianos under £1000.
Go to a good dealer