Upright Piano suitable for a beginner

[JL123]

I am interested in purchasing a piano (new or second hand) that is suitable for myself (i learnt a little as a child and got to Grade 5 etc as a second instrument) and also for my daughter who is just starting to learn.

Clearly I would like to get a good piano in terms of tone and feel and also one that will last us both for some time but I am unsure about which is the best option for us. I have looked at the range of Yamahas and as you would expect have a preference in terms of sound and feel for the U3's but we are only beginners and I need to take this into account. I also feel it is important to have a good piano that will encourage us in our endeavours.

We are based near Bristol and would welcome advise on good local dealers as well.

Thank you

[Colin Nicholson]

Firstly, it would be helpful to know your budget?
There is quite a difference in price between new & 2nd hand.
There isn't really any such thing as a "beginner new piano" - the term 'beginner' is mainly referring to yourselves & your price range, not the piano.
If you consider just passing your driving test (or learning in a car), what car would you learn in? Probably something cheap & small to start with, then upgrade later.

Any decent piano is well capable of being played by a good pianist, as well as a beginner, so If you want a 'beginner piano' (as such), I would start from around £800 - £1K (2nd hand).

The Yamaha U3 is a good piano, but also have a look at Kawai pianos: K15 (budget piano), then moving up - K2, K3 etc.

I don't know Bristol/Somerset area, but I'm sure that somewhere in your region, there will be a piano shop. The tone of a piano is down to personal taste (rather like the paintwork/ interior of a car) - so a piano dealer will be able to play some pianos for you so you get an idea. Also for your daughter's sake (as parents tend to learn erratically!) - if a 2nd hand piano, make sure its over-strung & under-damped. The 'tone' & 'timbre' will not be that important yet, until you develop a good technique, and good control of "cantabile" & legato on the piano. Most novice musicians don't even know where middle C is, or cannot read music, so playing fluent pieces of music will come later - but like up-grading from a Corsa to a BMW!! Again, most pianos can have the tone adjusted, but its down to personal taste. A piano salesman can tell you "this piano has a nice tone" - but its their personal opinion, regardless of what you hear & think?

Older German pianos tend to produce a better tone than Japanese pianos because the hammer felt is of a better quality. Terms of tone for Yamaha, some are nice, some are mellow, some are rich, and some are percussive in sound.

Most pianos last for donkeys years, and can out-last any vintage car, boat etc. If the piano is looked after and tuned & serviced (regulated) regularly, a Kawai or Yamaha piano should last another 50 years. New pianos will offer a decent warranty aswell - around 10 years (depending on the price), so its best to visit your local/regional piano shop.

Hope that helps....

[JL123]

Thanks Colin.

In terms of budget we would like to keep sub £3k and ideally less than this. We are in Gloucestershire and would like to have piano technician give any 2nd hand piano a thorough check first - any recommendations would be helpful.

I realise the question is how long is a piece of string. My daughter does seem to be very keen and has been learning for approx a year now but is very young - but it was on her insistence that she had lessons (she's just coming up to 6 now) and she has always gravitated towards the piano wherever there is one, playing notes carefully unlike some toddlers I know!!! Anyway I digress.

The other aspect is that we do have underfloor heating but it is kept quite low which I can see from other forum posters can be an issue.

Thanks for your useful comments.

[Colin Nicholson]

In the local piano shop where I used to work part-time, they sell brand new (budget) pianos for less than £2K - including warranty, stool, free tuning & local delivery. If you can stretch to £3k, the Kawai K15 is about in this price bracket.

With respect, your daughter is too young to understand the real tone of a piano - that comes much later. I teach piano aswell. In terms of something that "sounds nice" - black polyester is in fashion of course, and most new pianos have a good sound - and it looks good with the neighbours. Whatever your decision is, with underfloor heating - keep it down if poss., but most new pianos can withstand heating these days - but make sure it is tuned at least twice a year. For the 1st year, I recommend 3 times, every 4 months.

Don't forget, most piano shops also do a "Take it away" scheme, and finance is reasonable - some offering 0% interest, so you just pay for the piano in monthly instalments after a deposit.

[JL123]

Thanks once again - would you recommend a new piano rather than a second hand? It does seem to be a "safer" option for a novice.

Completely agree on comments on tone etc - however I will appreciate it and am also keen to get back to some playing.

Sorry if these seem noddy questions but it can be very confusing...

[Colin Nicholson]

I think its best to have a look first and get some advice. Some 2nd hand pianos are actually more expensive than certain new pianos, depending on their name & quality. A 2nd hand M3 BMW or SLK Merc. will be alot more expensive than a brand new Ford Ka or Vauxhall Corsa - so pianos are also priced up according to their quality, parts and materials used. Some cheaper new pianos are OK, but their materials dont last as long as your German pianos. Other good makes are Kemble, Welmar, Samick, Reid Sohn, Young Chan.... then there is Yamaha (also Diapason), Kawai. If you look at 2nd hand, check the serial numbers and ask the date when it was made. All good pianos should have a serial number inside & the same name printed inside as the name on the fallboard.

Good quality pianos are Yamaha, Kawai, .... then moving up the ladder to Bechstein, Bluthner, Steinway! , Boston, Essex, - but any of these over 30-50 years old may develop problems like any other old piano. Then there is the 'middle of the road' English piano such as Knight, Bentley, Zimmermann, - and older makes such as Broadwood, Chappell, Challen. Some of these retail from about £1.5K

Unless its a modern version, avoid Eavestaff mini pianos, or Lidner (of Ireland) - and any very old Victorian piano (over 80 yrs) with a spring & loop/over-damped mechanism. Also avoid the 'drop action' - this was on some earlier Eavestaff pianos, and if anything goes wrong with them, its quite expensive to remove the mechanism alone before finding the fault (i.e. re-pinning, broken string).

Happy hunting!

If you buy 'new' - you won't go wrong.

[JL123]

Thank you - I'll let you know how I get on

[JL123]

A quick update on this. We had a quick look and decided to put it on hold for a few months to see how the lessons progressed. The good news is that my daughter is now even more enthusiastic, progressing well in her lessons and it is now the time for us to seriously look to buy. I am very tempted to go new and the budget could be a bit more now - up to £5k. With this revised budget any advise is gratefully received in addition to the very welcome advise last year.

Thank you.

[NewAge]

A quick update on this. We had a quick look and decided to put it on hold for a few months to see how the lessons progressed. The good news is that my daughter is now even more enthusiastic, progressing well in her lessons and it is now the time for us to seriously look to buy. I am very tempted to go new and the budget could be a bit more now - up to £5k. With this revised budget any advise is gratefully received in addition to the very welcome advise last year.

Thank you.

I think you were probably wise to put off the piano purchase to see how lessons progressed, because many children appear keen at first, then gradually loose interest when the novelty wears off.
One part of your earlier post I liked, was on hearing of your daughter's insistence for lessons, especially at 6 (an excellent age to start), and that she always gravitated towards a piano wherever seeing one. That is often a tell-tale sign of future talent.
Glad to hear she is now even more enthusiastic, and progressing well.
I note you are in Gloucestershire - (shame on Colin for not knowing the Bristol/Somerset area) , but as always he's provided some excellent background info to purchasing.
I'm not in U.K but know the West Country well. As to where to buy, you could start by checking out what is probably still the largest piano store in Bristol - located in Stokes Croft. I can't vouch for their reputation, accept to say they have been there for donkey's years, and a quick look on their web site shows a few s/h Yamahas (U1, U3, UX1) within your budget.
Maybe closer to you is a store in Cheltenham, where they have a number of new pianos which may be worth a look, namely Kemble Cambridge 12 and K113. These are now manufactured in Indonesia, and although a little on the small size (compared to the Yamahas) may be what you need together with a 10 year warranty to see your daughter through to a good grade level. The same dealer also has a U30 Yam which is well worth checking out. Perhaps the experts here can comment further on the new Kembles (as I've never played one), and the s/h Yamahas.
You may wish to contact an unbiased piano technician (i.e. one not associated with the store) to give a particular s/h piano a check-over before purchase.
Good luck on your piano shopping. Please let us know how you get on.

[JL123]

Thanks - I actually had a look in the Bath branch yesterday as we were having a day out it helped us in terms of touch etc with both of us preferring the lighter touch. The Kawai's seemed a little bit more resistant, there were some mid late 80's U10 and U3 which didn't really grab us but the new P series had a nice touch and was the one that stood out. Thanks for the advice.