Carl Ecke sole agents W.H. Paling & co limited

[annie12]

Hi I have an upright Carl Ecke piano with W.H. Paling & co limited and the serial no 2699. it has 3 panels across the front two on the outer being shorter than the longer panel in the middle. The shorter panels have been professionally repaired as on close inspection there are some holes that looked like it was for candeliers and the middle long panel on either side also has some matching holes, for more candeliers?????? It is of walnut finish. Any ideas I live in Australia. Thank you for any information.

[Bill Kibby]

This is an Ecke piano sold by Palings. The short panels at the ends would have had sconces (projecting candle-holders) up to the twenties. There would not usually be sconces in the longer middle panel, but it may have been an unusual one, or things can get altered over the years.

[Colin Nicholson]

The centre panel may have had an extruding 'work of art' such as a carving of some kind, or similar brass ornamentation. Here is an example below, showing a restored centre carving mounted onto the middle panel. This piano however was around the late 1800's. The carving is mounted using smalls screws from behind - and are drilled at random to ensure the 'meater' parts of the carving secure the piece up against the centre panel. On this piano, the sconces were also missing - but luckily the carving was not. Regrettably, some retailers remove and sell these items separately - often worth more than the piano, or parts are robbed for another piano. Then when a piano is often bought at auction, it then reveals what's missing.

[annie12]

Thank you both for our input much appreciated. Does the serial no determine an approx age, and if so does anyone know the approx age. Thanks once again.

[Colin Nicholson]

Unless your piano is dated well before 1860, the numbers you give seem very early. Inside and around pianos, there are many different kinds of numbers dotted around - some are stock or cabinet numbers, others are simply just code numbers for assembly purposes. The serial number is usually quite unique - and in most cases inside the piano, near the tuning pins/ behind the mechanism/ on the soundboard.... however many novices think that the stamped or punched numbers facing the ceiling on either right or left edge of the piano (under the top lid) is the serial number...... some makes of piano they are, and some are not.

Sometimes when the top lid is open, the first numbers we see at the top is often thought of as being the serial number!!

Pianos from around 1880 onwards have 5 digits for their serial number, as an example.... the year 1920 suggests the serial number #25000 (this being the twenty five thousandth piano made by Ecke).

The only way to correctly date your piano is for us to actually see these numbers - you can upload it on here, or by all means send an attachment to my email. Remember that generally speaking (if you are a novice) - what you see, we must see - then there is no doubt.

To access the serial number, you will need to remove the front panel - it may also be on the inside left or right wall of the piano, and often it is duplicated somewhere else. Serial numbers are also very bold - either stamped, punched, etched or printed onto the wood in black - about 2cm in height per number (and no letters - unless a piano like Yamaha)....

Remember also, even if you come across a set of numbers inside that you think may be a serial number.... it might not be, so we strongly recommend that you take a photo of it, and send it to us.... then we can verify if the design/ font/ shape of the numbers is a likely match to numbers in the book. If you can't see anything - ask your tuner next time the piano is tuned.

Hope that helps

[Colin Nicholson]

Does the serial no determine an approx age, and if so does anyone know the approx age. Thanks once again.

We/ I overlooked your question above - sorry!
Absolutely yes, the serial number determines the age of the piano and nothing else - its a bit like a car registration plate, however, the numbers on many old pianos look nothing like the date - and the only way to date it is to refer the serial number to our piano atlas/ serial number book.

Carl Ecke (like many) started to list their serial numbers every 5 years (so every 5 years they are submitted) - so from around 1860 - 1945, the serial numbers are listed in blocks - not every piano is listed. For example:
1915 (the year) = serial number #22500
1920 = '' #25000
1925 = '' #26500

So if your serial number was say 22501, the year would be 1915.... however later numbers may be between the 5 years, so we calculate the difference.

So without the serial number, we can't date your piano accurately, and in the case if there is no serial number, or it can't be found, then pianos are dated by their looks, internal mechanism to within around 20-30 years.... as you would date a piece of furniture without markings.