Steinmayer...maybe?

[lockpicker1969]

Hi
i posted in the Piano advice section yesterday and i think i may have posted in the wrong place .please see photo below (if i can work out how to upload) from the little reading i have done so far, i belive this to be a Steinmayer.

[Bill Kibby]

It is difficult to judge much about the piano without seeing it whole, and the only name visible in your photo is Holder brothers Ltd. They became Ltd. around 1888, so the piano was probably sold after that.

I am puzzled, if it doesn't say Steinmayer on it, why would you think it is one? There is very little other than name that would distinguish a Steinmayer from any other make.

From what I can see, the action appears to be imported from Germany, something that was common up to the 1914 war. If your tuner considers it wise to remove the action, it may be marked with the action makers' name and number, and I may be able to date this.

[lockpicker1969]

I saw a Holder Brothers in a backpost which went on to state “most probably a Steinmayer”
I will take some better pictures later today, this was a quick snap with my mobile.Being local i would love to find out more about its history.
Thanks for your reply Bill

[Bill Kibby]

As far as I am aware, the Steinmayer name has no direct connection with Holder Brothers, who were large retailers and sold a great many different makes of piano.

[Colin Nicholson]

I dont think anyone can rely 100% on wording like 'probably' (or maybe/ could be/ possibly be) .... it is either a Steinmayer, or it isn't ! I dont think there is any way to confirm its name unless there is evidence of it on the piano.

I replied in the Piano Advice section...... and said to look in the middle of the fallboard...... but you haven't said if the name is missing or not?

The name would normally be displayed near the music rest, in the centre of the piano on the fallboard. Some Steinmayer pianos have their name brass-inlaid into the wood, others may be a decal kit; however I suspect the wood surface may have been stripped down - removing the name??.

I re-polished a piano recently, the name was missing before I did the work - however, I managed to make out the name of it by the shadows created by the light.

Col(umbo) !

[Colin Nicholson]

Just to advise you further lockpick1969, (if not aware), that unless the piano shows clearly the name on the fallboard & the same name inside the piano (eg near tuning pins) - even the name on the front can be different to inside. Sometimes retailers put their own names on the fallboard - possibly if the piano has been repolished.

Also, generally speaking, certain old pianos dont necessarily have anything unique to that maker's name, to make it stand out as a 'Steinmayer'.... millions of German exported pianos with different names have similar mechanisms, legs, trusses, sconces, beading, carvings, mother of pearl etc etc.... only your top names like Steinway have their unique designs & shapes, eg raised iron lettering on the cast frame, tubular action frames for grands and a unique pressure bar for the strings. During an inspection by a piano tuner, they usually find at least 2 or 3 of the above features to confirm that is the correct name.

I guess that if you HAD the name on yours, then scrubbed the name off - it would just be a box standard old pre-war piano with no name (sorry to say). Have a look on ebay - look for some old pianos (usually going cheap) - ignore the name, look at the design - many look the same with over-damped mechanisms.

If you want to give the piano a name, you can simply register here: http://www.piercepianoatlas.com .... and order a decal online - priced around $25 - $30 (US dollars) for a standard 4 inch gold decal, and easy to apply.

Look up 'AB decals' (adhesive based) - and type into the search box the name.

Hope that helps

[lockpicker1969]

Hi Colin,Bill
Hope these better quality pics help.
i have looked everywhere but still cant find any other name apart from Holder Brothers. would it be worth taking the back cloth cover off to see if there are any other markings? i was thinking of renewing this as its a bit old and has a musky smell to it.
Richard

[Colin Nicholson]

The internal mechanism (over damped/ bird cage) design and the 3/4 sized cast iron frame & strings running parallel (straight-strung), and fully exposed wrest plank suggests pre- 1910, however, I think the exterior casework has been modified later in its life to fit in with the 1950's/ 1960's era.... hence, rounded corners added at the top, and I suspect the original top front panel has been replaced to match the era (and the panel doesnt match the rest of the piano). Again, as I said before - no telling if its a Steinmayer - just a very old piano dressed up! I would imagine that when the piano was made, the top panel matched the bottom one - the bottom panel looks original with a recessed ply wood section, with mitred beading. Regrettably - these are way down on the list now, rated no more than 1 star out of 5. The mechanism is also very out-dated - as opposed to it's more modern designs.

It is likely the original top lid & top front panel would be square at the corners with a beading trim running all the way around. Sometimes the top front panel have more than one 'window' and occasionally with carvings/ marquetry or some kind of wood-inlay - but it may have been plain like the bottom panel.

Hopefully it may tune up OK - but dont expect Concert Pitch!

No harm in removing the back cloth - but I doubt there will be anything there - I've never seen a piano name there. The cloth is attached to like a 'picture frame' - it all unscrews and pulls out - but need some time to remove the nails or tacs.

One last thing you could do.... remove the fallboard - it just lifts up, this will reveal the key tops. Then remove the thin long wooden key rail (just behind the black notes) - then have a look on the wooden parts of the keys - there may be some pencil markings - but these will not be a date or name as such, but a tuner sometimes puts a date on them when last tuned. Also - lift the 1st key up slightly. The key rail should just lift off - located on 2 pins at either end.

Dont forget - there is no history on this piano as Bill says (he's the expert) - so you're wasting your time looking online. Old pianos like this are difficult to date accurately, and if someone has removed the name (which they have) - your guess is as good as mine.

[lockpicker1969]

Colin
Thank you for your speedy reply. i am hoping it will tune up to enable me to learn on it. just the small task of getting it up concrete stairs to my flat now

[Bill Kibby]

Forget Steinmayer. I would think this is a British piano with a cheap German action imported before the 1914 war, so around a century ago, and then modernised around the fifties or sixties, during which process the corners have been rounded, and the curved columns fitted in place of what originally would have been trusses. If your tuner thinks it is wise to remove the action, it may be marked with the action makers' name and number, and I may be able to date this. Have a look at this link...
http://www.piano-tuners.org/piano-forum ... f=2&t=8859

For other clues inside the piano, read on...

[Colin Nicholson]

I would leave the back cloth on for now till its moved (unless you want to just cut the cloth off with scissors - thats fine) - the clothed picture frame at the back has the hand grips incorporated into the structure, so if screws start to break off due to rust - its a risky job moving it & and it may come loose - not recommended for moving up stairs. Also check access at the top of the stairs/ hand rails/ sharp turns/ added steps at an angle.... your removal team need to know all this - and sometimes the keyboard has to come off - so it looks basically like a wardrobe with no doors and lots of strings! They weigh about 200-300 kilos, fairly light compared to modern full iron frames - lifting the piano is quite straight forward, its the turns, nooks & crannys that people forget. Once moved, leave it for about 7-10 days before getting it tuned (thats if it can be tuned?)

Good luck with that