Buying a new silent upright

[Davepiano]

Hi all
I'm going to buy a new silent upright but want to make sure I'm buying the right one. I've only been to one shop to look and they were very helpful although the ones they had as silent ones were pre owned and I want to get a new one. I have read a lot of threads on here with a lot of good hel info, some was way over my head in techno al terms, but has raised my awareness of what goes into a piano. I'm 45 years old and have been learning to play for many years. I currently have a Casio celviano digital which I've had from new for over 10 years. This is now about to leave home and go to live at my sons house. I live in Leeds but am struggling to find anybody local who has silent pianos in stock so had a run over to Manchester yesterday. I had a go on a few pianos and seemed to favour the Yamaha p121 in black. This didn't have the silent system on but was told it won't make a difference to the action. Although I had a budget of £5k in my head that very quickly went out of the window after a go on the P121. I could have the P121 for £6300 incl delivery to Leeds, set up, tuning a month later and they would do a deal on a duet stool. Does this seem a good deal? Any idea why we wouldn't have a Yamaha silent stockist in leeds? Are they no good or not popular? Just wondered what thoughts you have or pointers to maybe a different make? I tried a kawai, not sure which model but wasn't as struck on sound as I was with the Yamaha. It's a lot of money to spend if it's on the wrong thing. Ive seen a lot of technical comments from Colin from AA tuners and he seems to know his stuff so I think I should ask him to look after it for me depending on costs etc. I live in a house which is only about 14 years old. The dining room is my piano room, one radiator which is under the window. The piano would go on the opposite wall to radiator/window. Room is carpeted and size approx 12' x 8'. Temperature is between 20-22 degrees centigrade but not sure about humidity. Never have condensation. Is this reasonable to keep a piano in? May have a bit of sun on it during summer but not much. I would be interested to hear back any comments or advice or any dealers? Many thanks in advance. Dave

[NewAge]

Not sure if you have read this previous thread. http://www.piano-tuners.org/piano-forum ... ent#p45047 There's some good info from another Silent piano purchaser.

Of the ones I have tried quite recently I prefered the Kawai K3 over the equivalent Yamaha, but this is a personal thing and your own experience could differ. I feel too that there's a difference in the sound appreciation when playing without headphones, so I would advise you to try as many models as possible before you decide - even if it means traveling further afield.
Good luck.

[Davepiano]

Thanks very much for that. I had read that thread previously which was of some help. In fact I read right back to 2009. Thought going back further would possibly mean electronics side info would be out of date. It did help a little but so much choice means more confusion. With a budget up to £6500 (after being stretched) do you think a p121 is a good buy? I wasn't keen on the kawai I tried. Will visit more next weekend and see if I can find a p121 silent in stock to play and will then know if the action differs. Any other help you can give on room size suitability and environment would be appreciated.

[Davepiano]

Thanks for that. I had read the previous thread. i found it quite intersting and he obviously did hiw homework. the difference is he went for a B series and i'm looking at a P series as i want to hook it up to the laptop as well as have different voices to use. He seemed to really like it in acoustic mode but not in silent mode. Before going to Manchester i had read about Yamahas being brighter than Kawai which had a more mellow tone. i thought i wanted a more mellow tone until i heard them. I preferred the sound of the Yamaha. The problem is all the posts say try the piano and buy the one you try and not one to order in. this is hard when you can't find a stockist in your area, or one further afield, with the model you want to try in the showroom. Some say the action is different on a silent and others say it isn't. i think i will see if there's a contact page on the Yamaha website and ask them if any of the dealers has one in stock and where they are. I really don't mind travelling anywhere as it's a large purchase and will be used for many years. thanks again for replying.

[Barrie Heaton]

Depending on your level of playing as to how much you notice the difference in touch But there is a world of difference in touch to grade 8 and above players

The North west has quite a few stockist of Yamaha I can thing of few that stock them

Music Box, Dawsons , Rimmers, Forsyths and Reidys Home of Music. Not sure Music Cellar in Preston stock Silent pianos

Barrie,

[Davepiano]

Thanks very much Barrie. I would class myself as a novice really. Haven't sat any exams and have learned from music books like Alfreds piano course etc. I can't pick up any sheet music and play it but given time with i can memorise the notes and get better each time. I have thought about a teacher but to be honest Im a bit embarrassed to ask one at just about 45 years old so have just got by on my own. I'm off to Manchester again next weekend so will the ones you mentioned. Any brands you would recommend? Thanks again for responding.

[Barrie Heaton]

I would ring or email first, Music Box use to keep a good stock of SP but not been in for nearly a year now

Manchester
Music Box,
Dawsons , and main shop in Warrington
Forsyths

Rimmers, Bolton and Leyland main piano shops
Reidys Home of Music. Blackburn
Music Cellar, Preston

At Forsyths you also have Schimmel silent pianos which have the Yamaha system installed nice but expensive

As to lessons I have clients who started having lessons when they were 65 so you are a spring chicken.

Barrie,

[Colin Nicholson]

Good luck in your search Dave.
If you need the odd bit of coaching, give me a shout! I used to teach a gentleman from the age of 71 right up to his 80th birthday!! (from 2000 to 2009).... and I presently teach a few adults in their late 40's & early 50's.... lessons are private & one to one - so no need to be embarrassed or feel awkward.

Just something to consider (and maybe for others).... although you will want to seek a new piano with a nice tone & touch (thats the silent mode switched off) - dont forget that the tone may be different in a shop compared to your living room. Things like laminate flooring (act as another soundboard), deep pile carpet/ rugs/ curtains etc in your home make quite a bit of difference to a shop surrounding - usually a much bigger place that "absorbs" or bounces sound. I recently played on a new RX7 some Chopin.... sounded OK in the shop, but a huge huge difference in a church!! - high ceilings/ stone/ loads of glass - wow!

[Davepiano]

Thanks Barrie and Colin. I've read that the yamaha has a bright sound. Given that I have a small dining room with heavy carpet and lined curtains do you think that would mellow the sound much. Many thanks

[Colin Nicholson]

The general sound and touch of the piano will still be similar, but yes, there would be a noticeable difference in the resonance & reverb compared to a shop floor. Some shop floors have a basic low-pile carpet, others have laminated flooring or a combination of both (sometimes used as walk ways).... so it all depends on that. My local piano shop also has vertical blinds in the rear showroom as opposed to curtains, large floor to ceiling windows for the shop front, and in other areas, walls lined with wooden cladding - and the odd picture hanging.... pianos back to back etc.... creating very good acoustics. I think the description of your dining room - and with it being smaller should create a good "sound box" !

[Davepiano]

Do you know if the P121 silent is made in Japan or Indonesia? Would this really matter?

[Davepiano]

I now know its a solid Bavarian spruce soundboard and made in Indonesia which I'm told doesn't make any difference as it it to Yamaha standard. Right, I have one last question to ask (honest) ..... Ive seen all different references after model number which isnt to do with colour/finish. Eg P121M or P121NT etc. I know SG tells me it has the SG silent version and that PE is polished ebony but don't know what M or NT is. Is there a difference or just people's own codes? Thanks again for all the help. Dave.

[Colin Nicholson]

'M' could be mahogany.... but not sure. Its also interesting to note that various different models of Yamaha - like the U1 and U3 have identical parts inside - sometimes though there are exceptions regarding the soundboard & length of the bass strings, but generally speaking - they are the same. However.... when I used to work in the shop, I asked if there were any differences elsewhere.... and a Yamaha rep once said that one model has a locking fallboard, and the other one didnt!! Also the front key rail (where the escutcheon is located) is sometimes bevelled on some models, and not on others. There are also many many "factory codes" / numbers/ letters etc that are imprinted simply for reference to building the piano together.

For example, on some pianos - the first 2 keys are stamped with a code number - eg 1234.... and some think this is a serial number.... however the same set of numbers are identically punched on the note A#2 aswell.... and these again are just reference numbers for when the "keyboard department" meet the "cabinet department" .... a bit like your array of numbers & letters on the back of your TV or washing machine. They dont really mean anything - a bit of a nuisance, as some people take these numbers literally as being important, so we have to explain the above yet again.

On most new Yahamas though - there is the main serial number.... about 7-8 digits in length - printed near the tuning pins, and often printed again on a brass plaque - inlaid into the inside of the top lid - thats the important bit, and the 2 sets of numbers must match - but dont worry about other codes/ numbers/ letters printed elsewhere.... these are usually for the manufacturing team & staff members of Yamaha.

[Davepiano]

Colin, got sorted on piano. Could you send me some info on those life saver things please and costs? Will need to talk to you about it before I ask you to come to tune it. Bought it from Forsyth at Manchester. Really really happy with their help and advice. Thanks to everybody on here too. I really appreciate all the help. How long should I leave it after delivery before I ask you to tune it Colin?
Cheers everyone

[Davepiano]

Colin - forgot to mention - any chance you could run the vac round it, do me an oil change, clean the windows and frames,clip the cats claws and make a cuppa whilst you're here?

[Colin Nicholson]

Leave it a couple of weeks to settle in, and I'll be in touch.
Glad to hear the purchase went well.

[Gill the Piano]

Colin - forgot to mention - any chance you could run the vac round it, do me an oil change, clean the windows and frames,clip the cats claws and make a cuppa whilst you're here?

If he does all that, he can come and tune my piano too. Needs it...

[Barrie Heaton]

Colin, got sorted on piano. Could you send me some info on those life saver things please and costs? Will need to talk to you about it before I ask you to come to tune it. Bought it from Forsyth at Manchester. Really really happy with their help and advice. Thanks to everybody on here too. I really appreciate all the help. How long should I leave it after delivery before I ask you to tune it Colin?
Cheers everyone

If it has a silent system /Disclaver you can't install a life saver - There is the back fitting Life saver which is for fitting to piano with electrics in but they will not sell it in the UK as I asked for one a wile back

Barrie,

[Davepiano]

Thanks Barrie. I spoke to Forsyth today about it. They're sending out a thermometer/hygrometer and a chart to write down readings twice a day until they deliver the piano. They know it's a silent one though. They said they can fit one if the readings show that I need one. Should I ask again?

[athomik]

Colin, got sorted on piano. Could you send me some info on those life saver things please and costs? Will need to talk to you about it before I ask you to come to tune it. Bought it from Forsyth at Manchester. Really really happy with their help and advice. Thanks to everybody on here too. I really appreciate all the help. How long should I leave it after delivery before I ask you to tune it Colin?
Cheers everyone

If it has a silent system /Disclaver you can't install a life saver - There is the back fitting Life saver which is for fitting to piano with electrics in but they will not sell it in the UK as I asked for one a wile back

Barrie,

As long as a Life Saver really keeps the humidity inside a piano at somewhere between 40-65% humidity, it shouldn't affect any electronics. That's within the sort of environmental parameters they are meant to operate in anyway. It's only excessive humidity and condensation which would affect electronics.

[Davepiano]

So far I'm at 21 degrees C and 31% humidity. That's about what I thought it would be.

[Barrie Heaton]

So far I'm at 21 degrees C and 31% humidity. That's about what I thought it would be.

That fine for this time of year

Barrie,

[Barrie Heaton]

Colin, got sorted on piano. Could you send me some info on those life saver things please and costs? Will need to talk to you about it before I ask you to come to tune it. Bought it from Forsyth at Manchester. Really really happy with their help and advice. Thanks to everybody on here too. I really appreciate all the help. How long should I leave it after delivery before I ask you to tune it Colin?
Cheers everyone

If it has a silent system /Disclaver you can't install a life saver - There is the back fitting Life saver which is for fitting to piano with electrics in but they will not sell it in the UK as I asked for one a wile back

Barrie,

As long as a Life Saver really keeps the humidity inside a piano at somewhere between 40-65% humidity, it shouldn't affect any electronics. That's within the sort of environmental parameters they are meant to operate in anyway. It's only excessive humidity and condensation which would affect electronics.

I think live saver take on this is from the old MK1 Disc which had the big printed board in the bottom on the right and the heater rod would pass too close to it

Barrie,