Hi
I am trying to negotiate a price for a George Rogers and Sons upright piano in London,UK,that i wish to purchase.The serial number is 21689.Can anyone guess the year it was made?How much should I offer?
The white keys are quite yellow,and 2 hammers do not disengage.However,it has soul and a lovely timbre.
Lastly,how will re-stringing the piano alter it's character/soul?Will I need to replace the hammers if it is restrung?
Any feedback would be greatly appreciated.Luke
Rogers and Sons upright piano
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Colin Nicholson
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Re: Rogers and Sons upright piano
Luke,
You will need to provide some more information if possible to answer your questions....
Difficult to know the retail value of a piano depending on whether its sold in a piano shop, through the trade, privately owned or auction. A couple of photos of the piano & its internal mechanism might help. It also depends on its condition and how well it has been looked after - internally aswell as externally.
To start with, how much are they asking?
Who is selling the piano, and where is it being sold?
Is the piano over-strung & under-damped?
If the numbers you give IS the serial number (lots of numbers inside a piano, some just stock numbers & dont mean anything).... then the number #21689 suggests around the year 1906.
Key tops can be replaced if needed - if they look very yellow.
If it has a "lovely timbre", why would you want to consider a re-string?.... an expensive job, and the labour costs may be uneconomical compared to the value of the piano.
When you say "replace the hammers" - are you referring to the hammer heads, or hammers complete?
Most pianos have the original hammer head felt refaced after a restring, unless the felt is badly worn and very deeply grooved.
However - restringing a piano also involves lots of other associated jobs - the damper felts (and springs) would need to be replaced - so to do that, the hammers & levers should be removed.... then when the hammers are removed - the old bridle tapes often break.... so something that is fine now & in tact will continue to work OK, but once a 100 year old piano has its parts disturbed & removed - then other parts need replacing also.
Hope that helps
Colin
You will need to provide some more information if possible to answer your questions....
Difficult to know the retail value of a piano depending on whether its sold in a piano shop, through the trade, privately owned or auction. A couple of photos of the piano & its internal mechanism might help. It also depends on its condition and how well it has been looked after - internally aswell as externally.
To start with, how much are they asking?
Who is selling the piano, and where is it being sold?
Is the piano over-strung & under-damped?
If the numbers you give IS the serial number (lots of numbers inside a piano, some just stock numbers & dont mean anything).... then the number #21689 suggests around the year 1906.
Key tops can be replaced if needed - if they look very yellow.
If it has a "lovely timbre", why would you want to consider a re-string?.... an expensive job, and the labour costs may be uneconomical compared to the value of the piano.
When you say "replace the hammers" - are you referring to the hammer heads, or hammers complete?
Most pianos have the original hammer head felt refaced after a restring, unless the felt is badly worn and very deeply grooved.
However - restringing a piano also involves lots of other associated jobs - the damper felts (and springs) would need to be replaced - so to do that, the hammers & levers should be removed.... then when the hammers are removed - the old bridle tapes often break.... so something that is fine now & in tact will continue to work OK, but once a 100 year old piano has its parts disturbed & removed - then other parts need replacing also.
Hope that helps
Colin
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Colin Nicholson Dip. Mus. CMIT CLCM PTLLS
Piano tuning & repairs. Full UK restoration service
http://www.aatuners.com
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Colin Nicholson Dip. Mus. CMIT CLCM PTLLS
Piano tuning & repairs. Full UK restoration service
http://www.aatuners.com
Tuition ~ Accompaniment ~ Weddings
http://www.pianotime1964.com
Member of The Guild of Master Craftsmen
Re: Rogers and Sons upright piano
Colin
Thank you so much for your insight.
In the undercroft of a church(my daughter's nursery is on their grounds),sits this piano,which is dusty and is internally covered in cobwebs.I am able to play it whenever I want,and have enjoyed it for some tome now.So,the idea of asking them if it was for sale came to mind.I have inquired,but no reply yet.
I am not sure what"over-strung and under-damped" means.
The hand drawn number that I think is the serial number was to the right of the name of the maker raised into the metal of the piano.Where else could the serial number be?
The "felt" hammers appear to have grooves in them..but it sounds lovely.
Thanks again for your help.Luke
Thank you so much for your insight.
In the undercroft of a church(my daughter's nursery is on their grounds),sits this piano,which is dusty and is internally covered in cobwebs.I am able to play it whenever I want,and have enjoyed it for some tome now.So,the idea of asking them if it was for sale came to mind.I have inquired,but no reply yet.
I am not sure what"over-strung and under-damped" means.
The hand drawn number that I think is the serial number was to the right of the name of the maker raised into the metal of the piano.Where else could the serial number be?
The "felt" hammers appear to have grooves in them..but it sounds lovely.
Thanks again for your help.Luke
Re: Rogers and Sons upright piano
Re stringing a piano, if done well, will improve it. However, I think that a restring job - which will automatically incur more work as Colin said, will cost quite a lot, maybe around 3000 to get all the work you need done completed. You may then have a fine piano - some of these old english uprights were excellent - but it's already more than the piano will be worth.
If it's an old english piano you want, you may be better to go to a dealer who buys in old stock and then reconditions it well. It works out cheaper for you because their rebuilding shop is in-house. Also, the piano is sold with no work needing done (in theory) so it sounds how it will sound. Get it?
Alternatively you could look for a younger piano, maybe from the 1980s, like a Welmar or Broadwood or Chappell. You'll pay a bit more, but in general the stringing should be OK, and a thorough regulation/servicing should bring the piano up to scratch. I mean, there are some pianos that are younger that have been treated so badly that they are worse than something much older, but you get the idea. Take a tech with you.
Understand though, that in most circumstances, there is no cheap way to get a decent piano. When you think about what a piano is, how it's made, you won't mind paying for it.
If it's an old english piano you want, you may be better to go to a dealer who buys in old stock and then reconditions it well. It works out cheaper for you because their rebuilding shop is in-house. Also, the piano is sold with no work needing done (in theory) so it sounds how it will sound. Get it?
Alternatively you could look for a younger piano, maybe from the 1980s, like a Welmar or Broadwood or Chappell. You'll pay a bit more, but in general the stringing should be OK, and a thorough regulation/servicing should bring the piano up to scratch. I mean, there are some pianos that are younger that have been treated so badly that they are worse than something much older, but you get the idea. Take a tech with you.
Understand though, that in most circumstances, there is no cheap way to get a decent piano. When you think about what a piano is, how it's made, you won't mind paying for it.