John Spencer Piano

[Barrie Heaton]

Sound like you have an overdamper, Birdcage piano as the Americans like to call them. Most US tuners have great problems tuning them because of the way they tune using long strip of muting felt 70000 is a ridiculous amount I would say that the tuner did not want to work on it so gave that price.

To fitt a modern action and keys restring may run you to $14000 However, you just would not go to that expense on that make of piano.

I would try a different tuner before they come out aks if they can tune a Birdcage piano


Barrie,

[sarky]

did he say why? if you have a birdcage action you can see the vertical wires to the whippens on the front of the action.

reason I ask is that I have a birdcage action piano through no fault of my own. I got it free from a car boot sale last year via my girlfriend - having not played the piano for a number of years. When I started to research it I found it was a birdcage action - it was also in appallingly bad condition having 80% of the action jammed solid with no return and the key guides rusted enough to jam the keys.

being an idiot - i decided not to give up so quickly and nipped out to purchase a copy of the Berlitz book and began reading though it front to back. 6 months later having completely dismantled and rebuilt the action, and thoroughly cleaned up the other parts the piano is back in action and sounding great.

in short, it's not necessary fatal to have a birdcage. however it is almost certainly worthless, so you lose nothing by buying a copy of the Berlitz book and having a go at the action yourself - that was my look on it.

when I got it properly tuned by a professional (my efforts were enough to convince me that the pins were OK and tuning is alot harder then it looks ), he did not even complain once about the fact it was a birdcage, mind you here in the UK they are more common I suppose.

however, I was lucky the pins were all tight and the soundboard was in good condition. if yours is untuneable because the pins are loose, or the soundboard is cracked you might as well stop now.

morale: if your piano is worthless you lose nothing by having a go yourself. it's much more satisfying that way anyhow.

[Barrie Heaton]

when I got it properly tuned by a professional (my efforts were enough to convince me that the pins were OK and tuning is alot harder then it looks ), he did not even complain once about the fact it was a birdcage, mind you here in the UK they are more common I suppose..

Most tuners in the UK tune at lest 1 a week so far this week I have done 4 and 2 were today most tune up very well and give years of pleasure and a good income to us tuners

however, I was lucky the pins were all tight and the soundboard was in good condition. if yours is untuneable because the pins are loose, or the soundboard is cracked you might as well stop now.

Loos pins yes.... cracks in sound board not a problem in most cases All pianos get some cracks they are only a problem if that buzz and most buzzing problems come for the ribs coming away for the soundboard Even Steinways admit most of their pianos get cracks in the soundboard at some point in there life and they are no big problem see
http://www.steinway.com/technical/soundboard.shtml

morale: if your piano is worthless you lose nothing by having a go yourself. it's much more satisfying that way anyhow.

Well lets face it, it is not rocket science how the old overdampers were
made the biggest problem for most in the UK is parts not so much in the US
as the supply houses have a different outlook on DIY over there.

Barrie,

[sarky]

agreed its not. I am definately not any expert on this - my piano is the only one I have ever got my hands dirty with.

However,,,

Me recommendation to any would be amature like me is - know what you can and cannot do. In my opinion Berlitz should have a five spanner rating to let people judge how hard a job is . I know there are many jobs on a piano (tuning for example, regulation etc) that should be left to people who really do know what they are talking about. It would not stop me having a go - I've been slowly regulating my action for over three months now - but then my piano is totally worthless in financial terms (not in sentimental terms I'm quite attached to it now) - and I have an urge to see this through to its completion.

Follow my rules for Piano amatures like me :-
1. buy Berlitz
2. use to correct tools (Fletcher & Newman on www)
3. if you have doubts about what you are doing then *dont* do it.
4. get advice from an expert - at the very least get somebody to tell you if the piano is worth you spending hours of your time on.

That about right Barrie?

I guess I'm trying to cover myself in case anybody takes my advice and wrecks a sentimental family relic.

[Barrie Heaton]

Follow my rules for Piano amatures like me :-
1. buy Berlitz
2. use to correct tools (Fletcher & Newman on www)
3. if you have doubts about what you are doing then *dont* do it.
4. get advice from an expert - at the very least get somebody to tell you if the piano is worth you spending hours of your time on.

That about right Barrie?

I guess I'm trying to cover myself in case anybody takes my advice and wrecks a sentimental family relic.

Piano DIY is no different to most DIY projects common sense rules apply, not everyone has common sense sadly, safety gear and most of all as Norm Abram would Say "Don't forget the Safety Glasses"

one area you must be very sure what you are doing is replacing strings, you can get hurt and cause a lot a damage. When a piano string is up to pitch there is over 20 tons of strain on the frame (plate) each string has 160 lbs + tension and close to 200 lbs in the bottom bass.

BTW I have never seen the book Berlitz or do you mean Reberlitz

As to fixing that sticking note on you wife's prize 38,000 Steinway you could end up in casualty if you muck it up

Barrie,

[Melodytune]

On average I would say that I tune about 2 overdamper pianos a week and many of them have been adequate for the owner. Some of which are pleasent to tune.

[sarky]

indeed. - Arthur A. Reblitz

darn it. thats what happens when you try to remember a books author by memory.

believe me I approach the strings with extreme caution - the book has enough warnings about 22 tons of force to even make me consider paying the tuner to do it (but where would be the fun in that?). that falls under my heading of being very very sure about what I am doing and getting in a pro if i'm not.

As stated before - my piano is worthless so there is not that much to lose.

having said that I am having a huge amount of fun both playing on it and tinkering with it - and getting quite sentimental about the old thing.

do you actually know of anybody daft enough to scr^w up a 38k steinway?! that has got to be a story worth recounting....

[Barrie Heaton]

do you actually know of anybody daft enough to scr^w up a 38k steinway?! that has got to be a story worth recounting....

Yip it was not a new one but the action was a bit stiff so he put 3 in 1 oil on all the parts good fun trying to fix it he no longer live there the piano is and working with new parts.

But the best one is the idiot who read about bleaching ivory - he filled the bath with water and household bleach and placed all the keys in it to soak over night, it did get them clean the only problem was next day they were all floating on the water with the bushings I did not see this one it was someone I use to work for went out to see the piano it was scraped.

We get to see some things

Barrie,

[Melodytune]

Oh dear! the things some people do eh!

[sarky]

3-in-1, good grief.

I cant laugh too much, to be honest - before I read Reblitz I freed up two *really* stuck keys with WD40 not knowing any better. when I did know better having read the bible twice - I completely dismantled that section of the action and cleaned off all the residue lest it gunk up on me later on. the rest of the action i freed up and cleaned with compressed air - except two keys I used that purpose made lubricant (protek? something like that) from fletcher and newman.

At least I realised and rectified the problem!

BTW. two of the dampers look like some idiot has spelt red wine on them about 30 years ago. I am never going to get a replacement for a victoriam overdamper felt, so is there anything I can use to clean it? scrape it? there's a real irritating sound coming from the damper, any advice would be appreciated.

I realise this should probably go in a seperate post, so i'm repost if nobody answers.

[Barrie Heaton]

3-in-1, good grief.

I cant laugh too much, to be honest - before I read Reblitz I freed up two *really* stuck keys with WD40 not knowing any better.

.

The problem with WD40 is the petroleum used to carry the lub most old bushings are glued with animal glue and the petroleum works as thinning agent so when you come to recenter, the bushing come out and with the wood soaked in WD40 glues don't stick well when replacing the bushing it is a pain

BTW. two of the dampers look like some idiot has spelt red wine on them about 30 years ago. I am never going to get a replacement for a victoriam overdamper felt, so is there anything I can use to clean it? scrape it? there's a real irritating sound coming from the damper, any advice would be appreciated.

I realise this should probably go in a seperate post, so i'm repost if nobody answers.

You can get End grain overdamper felt
http://www.fletcher-newman.co.uk/catalo ... t_end.html

However, in your case a good stiff tooth brush or sandpaper should remove the hard stuff on the surface and then prick the felt with a needle to soften it up
- I would tilt the action back rather than keep taking it out as this puts strain on the loops

[gramagenie]

I need an author for the book mentioned "BERLITZ" am trying to locate it and have come up with everything but the one mentioned.

[Barrie Heaton]

I need an author for the book mentioned "BERLITZ" am trying to locate it and have come up with everything but the one mentioned.

Piano Servicing Tuning Rebuilding
by Arthur A. Reblitz

Barrie

[gramagenie]

Thank You Barrie Heaton

My father was given a John Spencer Piano, and has decided to refurbish (?) it, but after cleaning it out he found that there were about 6 keys (?) that needed to be replaced, so he has been looking around for somewhere to get parts for his, birdcage, piano.
Thanks for the information, and if there is anyone with whom he could possibly get parts, he would like any information.

Thanks once again

[Gill the Piano]

Do you mean keys -ie, the bits you press - or hammers -ie, the bits that hit the strings? Hammers would be more likely; they are often missing (usually found rattling around inside the bottom of the piano) and most piano supply houses sell replacement parts, but the size of the hammer varies depending on its place within the range of the piano. It might be easier for your dad to call a local tuner who would probably have some old hammers from a dead piano he could use. Good luck!

[gramagenie]

Gill Green,

Thanks for the information, i'm printing it out for my father to read. I'm sure he'll go along with your suggestion, since other than playing the piano, the intnernal workings were unfamilar to him, until now, once again THANKS, I didn't realize how ignorant this little project of his would make me feel, oh well, theres always something new.