Overdamper action in upright pianos

[napicola]

I have an upright piano by the early 1900's. It has a good sound, iron frame, spruce soundboard, ivory keys, etc. but it has a separate damper action mounted above the hammers, called an overdamper action.
My question is... can I change the action by modern action?
Thank you.

[Bill Kibby]

Yes, in theory, but first you have to find someone willing to take on the task of building a new action - they don't come ready-made. The cost of the parts alone is almost certainly more than the value of an overdamper piano, then you have to pay the technician.

Overdampers are no more separate than underdampers, except in the sense that you can take them off in one unit. They are part of the action.

[Johnkie]

I have an upright piano by the early 1900's. It has a good sound, iron frame, spruce soundboard, ivory keys, etc. but it has a separate damper action mounted above the hammers, called an overdamper action.
My question is... can I change the action by modern action?
Thank you.

Generally speaking, overdamped actions were mainly fitted to straight strung frames. Your piano could possibly be an overstrung though, seeing as it was made with ivory key covers. It is inlikely that anyone in the trade would consider building a completely new under-damped action, it would be extremely costly, and the end result would simply not justify the outlay.

It might be better to consider an overhaul of the action you already have though. The dampers might benefit from being re-felted, and although un-likely to be anywhere as efficient as an under-damped action nevertheless .... likely to be improved.

[Bill Kibby]

The renovation of the Bronte piano included fitting underdampers to a cabinet piano of the 1820s or so, but with a piano like this one, it is often the case that new overdamper felts don't bed in well, and the customer is often left feeling that the damping is worse. I think an hour's work on the overdampers is about all one can justify. If the piano was round here, I'd have a look to see if the overdampers could be persuaded to perform a little better.

[Colin Nicholson]

It also depends on the action frame, and whether the hammers are mounted behind & in-line just above the levers or not.... a new action frame may be difficult to obtain to re-orientate the hammer position to allow for a damper rail.... then the levers!! - might be risky fitting damper spoons, and then the sustain pedal crank lever, pedal rod & guide hole...... lots & lots of ££££££ probably running into the thousands. Best to just change the piano I think.

[MarkGoodwinPianos]

I believe these pianos make excellent drinks cabinets and they are very popular these days.
You could keep the existing piano and then buy an extra piano to be used as a piano. Whatever you do, don't put it on the landfill!!

Let us know how you get on

[rodney]

Sorry,but I do not think one should agree with the latest MarkGoodwinPianos post--the truth is our ears have been so much accustomed to the crisper sound of the modern piano that we are sometimes put off by the
less effective dampimg of even a very good old overdamped piano. However, if we realize that even such
composers\performers as Chopin and Liszt not only composed for but also performed on such pianos-as they
were the only kind(sometimes also straight-strung,like Pleyel of that period) available at the time-then I
think we should lend a more comprehending ear to these pianos--after all ,otherwise their sound is
immensely beautiful...
rodney

[Bill Kibby]

I do try to remind people frequently that this is a piano HISTORY forum, it's not about keeping up with the modern specifications, or valuation, it's about history. I am not an expert on the classic music aspects, but it seems to me that the whole 88-note thing has nothing to do with the "great" composers, who mainly wrote on 61 notes or less. To take an antique piano and turn it into some half-baked imitation of a modern piano is not the way to respect history. I find more untuneable pianos from the 1900s that are only good for making cocktail cabinets.

[Johnkie]

I do try to remind people frequently that this is a piano HISTORY forum, it's not about keeping up with the modern specifications, or valuation, it's about history. I am not an expert on the classic music aspects, but it seems to me that the whole 88-note thing has nothing to do with the "great" composers, who mainly wrote on 61 notes or less. To take an antique piano and turn it into some half-baked imitation of a modern piano is not the way to respect history. I find more untuneable pianos from the 1900s that are only good for making cocktail cabinets.

Bill is quite correct ... The modern pianoforte is a totally different beast to those used by the masters before the evolution of the modern instruments. I sometimes like to ponder on how they must feel ( if they are able to look down from the heavens ) .... it may well be ..... "if only I could have had an instrument like a Steinway D grand to compose and perform on" !!

The original post should perhaps have been posted on the piano advice section, in hindsight ... and then Bill's blood pressure would not have risen quite so much ..... "this is a HISTORY forum !!!

[Bill Kibby]

It takes something much more exciting to raise my blood pressure. If only Rosemary Brown hadn't died, she could have asked Beethoven's opinion. Apparently, she has now been in touch with someone from beyond the grave... by computer chat line! Incidentally, I found a photo of Beethoven on the net recently. Hmm!

[MarkGoodwinPianos]

If you have a piano with an overdamped action you probably shouldn't invest too much cash in it unless it has sentimental value to you.
Sorry to be blunt.

[rodney]

I'd never dream of causing embarassment to anybody-Bill in particular.
No doubt good modern pianos are in every respect much much better-but one
can not be denied an "escape"to romanticism through the rich sound these
old pianos produce---after all they are a substantial part of piano history..
regards,
rodney

[Johnkie]

I'd never dream of causing embarassment to anybody-Bill in particular.
No doubt good modern pianos are in every respect much much better-but one
can not be denied an "escape"to romanticism through the rich sound these
old pianos produce---after all they are a substantial part of piano history..
regards,
rodney

Rodney, I wouldn't worry about causing embarassment on here ... I'm sure none was caused. Your post only echoed a question that many of us have been been asked during our time in this profession, and I assume you can be in no doubt as to what the general answer is. Some of our replies may get taken completely the wrong way, and come across not as intended. An good example might well be shouting .... as in "HISTORY" .... a common enough thing that happens throughout forums and the whole E-mail plethera. I hope that you are not put off, and will continue to ask questions whenever one arises ... and that we can reply without causing either embarassment or being impolite.

[Bill Kibby]

I have been answering piano history enquiries here for years, people don't want to be told that their pianos are rubbish, they want to learn more about them, and it is important to remember that people love pianos.

When I give talks on the subject, I am sometimes concerned that it could be boring to have someone going on at length about a single subject, but I am always amazed at the depth of people's interest and enthusiasm for pianos. Not just new, modern, perfect pianos, but old, loved ones.

Would you throw away a painting because it is not of the modern school? Or trash a car because it doesn't have ABS? Too many people are burning books because they don't have clean, shiny, colourful covers, what about the history?

Nobody has embarassed me, or raised my blood pressure, and it is always dangerous to read a tone of voice into plain text, that is the basis of many of the troubles in the world today.

I just don't want people coming on this forum and rubbishing other people's pianos.

[rodney]

1-For Johnkie
Thanks a lot for the understanding and encouragement-greatly appreciated..
2-For Bill
Very grateful for your last post-I think you've placed the matter in its correct perspective-
the last three lines in particular demonstrate profound thinking with which I whole-heartedly
agree.
Very best regards
rodney