What your Piano Tuner Needs - Please !!

[Johnkie]

So you need someone to tune your piano ... and perhaps have no idea what he/she expects you to do. Here is a guide to help you get the best possible tuning form your tuner.
Absolute quiet No washing machines or hoovers
No TVs or radios
No children playing with their toys or showing you how they can play the piano too!
No customers talking to you (before or after tuning is fine ...but not whilst tuning)
No windows open – Traffic noise and outside interference will cause air movement. – Why ?
No fan heaters – Why ?
No people moving about in the same room ( no matter how quiet they may be) - Why?
Why the Whys?
Because any kind of air movement in the same room as the piano that is being tuned will cause the air to be disturbed .... it’s something called the “Doppler” effect. Air movement causes the pitch of a note to change, making it impossible to judge when the note is absolutely perfectly in tune. People have often been amazed at how our blind tuners can tell immediately if someone walks into a room or simply (and silently) moves about! It’s not any form of special sense they have, we sighted tuners can sense it just as well .... it breaks our concentration and makes tuning immensely difficult.
So dear customer please don’t think we are being precious or anti-social ... we really do need ABSOLUTE stillness and silence ... if you want a tuning that’s as good as it can possibly be – Just say hello, direct us to the piano, (ask us if we would like tea or coffee .... Coffee, white and one sugar for me please !) – Close the door, and keep the place as still and as quiet as you possibly can. If you can do this, your piano tuner will have the perfect conditions enabling the 100% concentration needed to do a good professional job.

[Dr Owl]

Hmmm. We can manage almost all of your requirements (perhaps not ABSOLUTE quiet -- isn't that the whole point of John Cage's silent piano piece?) ... the coffee's reasonable though I can't make good tea ... but you haven't mentioned "the Standard Middle-Class Piano". Our new piano is still fairly uncluttered but the old one, while not having a washing machine, did have

a three-foot pile of music, the bottom foot undisturbed since 1967,
a flute,
a clarinet,
a broken violin bow,
a fife and a swannee whistle,
every known size of Aulos recorder
(except the 6" garklein -- even standard middle-class parents have limits),
a cornet mute with one cork missing,
a croquet mallet (don't ask),
three blunt pencils, and
two dirty coffee mugs.

Did you have special classes for this in college?

John

[Johnkie]

Hmmm. We can manage almost all of your requirements (perhaps not ABSOLUTE quiet -- isn't that the whole point of John Cage's silent piano piece?) ... the coffee's reasonable though I can't make good tea ... but you haven't mentioned "the Standard Middle-Class Piano". Our new piano is still fairly uncluttered but the old one, while not having a washing machine, did have

a three-foot pile of music, the bottom foot undisturbed since 1967,
a flute,
a clarinet,
a broken violin bow,
a fife and a swannee whistle,
every known size of Aulos recorder
(except the 6" garklein -- even standard middle-class parents have limits),
a cornet mute with one cork missing,
a croquet mallet (don't ask),
three blunt pencils, and
two dirty coffee mugs.

Did you have special classes for this in college?

John

I like you sense of humour Dr Owl

I'm not sure whether you think I'm being serious or not though ! It really matters not what has to be cleared off the piano or what kind it is ..... 200 year old Broadwood or brand new Steinway D ... The fact remains that without quiet and stillness it is virtually pointless to expect any firstclass tuner to be able to carry out a first class tuning. Yes, every piano is different and many can never be perfectly tuned either due to age or quality, but the point is that many can be tuned very much better if the conditions are conducive. Whilst ABSOLUTE might be a little too much to expect (unless you're in a recording studio or working in a music department at 11pm), all too often the customer doesn't get the best possible tuning of whatever instrument they have, simply because the tuner can't hear or consentrate 100% when the things that I mentioned are taking place. Let me put it another way ..... would you expect an artist to be able to produce a masterwork with the interferrence of a blindfold? I might be entirely wrong, but I assume from your comment about having special classes that you're not a tuner Dr Owl. The bottom line though, is that most clients are unaware that these requirements are not anything other than necessary to get a good job and the best possible value for money .... we of course still do the best we can under any circumstances... but could do so much better with a little consideration being given towards providing their tuner's with the correct working enviroment. The client pays to have their piano tuned ... so why not educate the client so that the best possible result can be obtained rather than " well that's the best we can do under all the circumstances"

[MarkGoodwinPianos]

Im enjoying this topic. First post especially

[Barrie Heaton]

For me its hard brushes on wooden floors God that is that so off putting even in a big halls, Ceiling fans are a pain as well. Washing machine, vacuum cleaners Parrots and minor birds who singe the note your are tuning

Drinks Tea Black, no sugar or weak coffee please

Barrie

[Colin Nicholson]

Yes, I prefer absolute silence aswell, but never get it!! I tune a reasonably good piano for a rest home, its kept in a cool annex,,,, and some strange reason, every time I arrive, they then shuffle their way in with their zimmer frames!! - expecting me to do some kind of concert. One old lady even came up to me and said.... "that sounds bloody awful!!".... it would be handy if they could just 'die' for an hour until the piano is tuned, then have them revived!! Then, their family arrive to visit them, OMG!! its murder trying to tune.
Not sure about the windy aspect of it Johnkie - I might have to ask the oldies to 'hold it in' till I've finished the tuning!!

I've many more anecdotes to tell, some also involve nasty coffee!!

[NewAge]

......(ask us if we would like tea or coffee ....

Johnkie,
Didn't you forget the hobnob or custard cream biscuits?
My Pleyel/S&S trained tuner technician really seems to appreciate his bi-annual trips here. Not sure whether it's the Sauter he enjoys maintaining in tip-top condition or the aforementioned biscuits and fresh coffee I always supply.

[AroundAgain]

they then shuffle their way in with their zimmer frames!! - expecting me to do some kind of concert.

Ahhh! It would the the highlight of their week to see something going on and, of course, a expect concert. What else do you do with a piano???

Yes, bet you do have some good tales ...

[NewAge]

.....any kind of air movement in the same room as the piano that is being tuned will cause the air to be disturbed .... it’s something called the “Doppler” effect. Air movement causes the pitch of a note to change, making it impossible to judge when the note is absolutely perfectly in tune. People have often been amazed at how our blind tuners can tell immediately if someone walks into a room or simply (and silently) moves about! It’s not any form of special sense they have, we sighted tuners can sense it just as well ....

Interesting comments, and from what I understand quite believable.
I recall reading about Glenn Gould and when he used to record in the Eaton departmental store auditorium in Toronto. Whilst he was playing he knew immediately if there was anyone other than the couple of technicians in the auditorium. Whatever it was that he could hear or sense, nobody else would hear anything. On these particular occasions he would stop playing and request a search of the auditorium - and apparently he was right every time! More often than not it would be a shoplifter who had hidden after store closing time, slipped into the auditorium and hid between the rows waiting for the premises to be totally evacuated! After the intruder had been escorted towards the exit, Gould would then continue with the recording.

[Johnkie]

Quite right guys .... caged birds are so piano tuner un-friendly ( perhaps it's just a Minor thing or we're too cheep ! ) - I'd forgotten that 'cause it's been such a long time since I've had to contend with one (thank goodness) Flower ladies and cleaners are another example, and all those comments from people that need educating as to the need for peace and quiet which normally are on the lines of "don't mind us .... just carry on" Hot air ducted heating, and why oh why do we have to always give way to ..... plumbers, electricians, decorators, joiners, alarm engineers, surveyers, builders ..... all of which seem incapable of working without the aid of a radio ?

However the biggest bugbear I have, is with professional musicians who really should now better ! i.e ... orchestras and stage crew who couldn't give a damn about the needs of other professionals .... and then have the brass neck to complain if an artist isn't happy with the end product.

Keep them coming .... perhaps we could go on to produce a customer information sheet .... including the top ten of preferred beverages and biscuits

[Dr Owl]

Oh, I quite realize that you're absolutely serious, Johnkie. I just thought I'd be light-hearted about clutter, another problem that I'm sure piano tuners have to deal with. We're reasonably well-trained, and provide our tuner with a sitting room in which the loudest noise is the gurgle of the aquarium ... the goldfish get very cross if you turn off their aeration system.

As you inferred, we're not piano tuners, just amateur musicians and Standard Middle-Class Grandparents. As a retired mathematician and amateur organologist, I'm well placed to ramble on and on to the tuner about how it must be possible to improve on the roller piano action ... but I've been trained not to do that either.

I must dash now. I have to go to buy some cork glue for my cornet mutes.

John

[Johnkie]

Dr Owl .... as I have previously said ..... Great sense of humour .... good luck with the cork glue

[Gill the Piano]

Pet hate; tuning in old peoples' homes. They all make a beeline to sit round the piano then complain about the noise. Comments range from' Does Matron know there's a person stealing the piano?'' as I'm taking the top door off, through 'Well she doesn't play very well,' to the direct 'Shut UP!'.
Next; schools. I've had a teacher lead a whole troupe of kids in, line them up as a choir and say 'Now, the lady there is tuning the piano, so you'll have to sing EXTRA LOUD.' Flea inserted in ear at great velocity (politely)and teacher tells kids 'We'll have to readjourn (excellent English) somewhere else as the lady needs quiet' (venomous sidelong glance at stupid tuner who never learned to tune by the power of smell).
Then: 'witty' comments whilst tuning in public spaces. 'I'll name that tune in one,' 'You need lessons, duck!' ' Off-key job for a lady'...and so on. Not funny the first time, and after 30 years of it, I have perfected the rictus grin that never quite reaches the eye...
Memorable; child and dog follow me into the room and dog curls up at my feet whilst child proceeds to make a bl**dy nuisance of itself, blowing toy trumpet and banging on keys. Mother appears; 'Is he being a pain?' 'Well...' I simper, 'Just a bit.' 'OUT!' she bellows, dog exits, child stays.
But apart from that I love my job!

[Johnkie]

Gill, Gill, Gill ..... the best examples yet - Soooooo funny but sooooooooooooo true It's great to hear that others experience the same things in this business ... After 45 years I was thinking that perhaps I was being a little too grumpy ( with myself that is .....never towards the customer - you know exactly how it is .... broad (false) smile whilst uttering meekly "no it's alright .... I can manage" but inwardly thinking "shut the **** up !"

[vernon]

How about a concert tuning.
You wait all afternoon while the famous pianist rehearses with the orchestra--on and on till 7.00 pm approaches.Thereupon, the evening staff pour in and arrange all the rattling chairs etc for the 7-30 performance. That's an art in it's own. I remember one famous penis( Semprini)moaned that the tuning wasn't 100% so I replied that I only had time to do the bad bits!
Lost the job.

[Johnkie]

How about a concert tuning.
You wait all afternoon while the famous pianist rehearses with the orchestra--on and on till 7.00 pm approaches.Thereupon, the evening staff pour in and arrange all the rattling chairs etc for the 7-30 performance. That's an art in it's own. I remember one famous penis( Semprini)moaned that the tuning wasn't 100% so I replied that I only had time to do the bad bits!
Lost the job.

Yes Vernon I know exactly how you must feel about it, and I too have experienced the same. In fact I've now reached the point that I refuse to take on concert work involving a very famous NE orchestra in a very famous NE venue that "goes with onion", because I contantly had to battle with trying to tune their Steinway D along with members of the orchestra tuning up or practising - and when I asked for silence, was told that other tuners manage to cope without too much bother. I now only take on top quality concert work where I know that I have an hours perfect silence, and therefore can be sure that the job will be done properly. After all reputation is everything in this game, and a bad report in a local paper due to something beyond our control can have serious knock on effects.

I get the distinct impression that this topic is doing quite a reasonable job as a pressure relief valve for tuners

[vernon]

Waiting in the front row for Freddie Starr and cast to finish rehearsing so I could tune the piano, he suddenly held up his hand,stopped the band,advanced to the footlights and addressed me " And who might you be my good man?"
I replied that I was the tuner, whereupon he turned to the stage and said"everybody off - this man is more important to the show than all of us together."
Very red-faced I tuned the piano with Freddie Starr occasionally peeping round the curtain and making faces at me or once mooning at me.

[joe]

About 20 years ago there was a classical pianist who toured with a set of Steinway key lead weights and after tuning Steinway Model D if he was not happy with the feel of piano would ask if you could re-weight the keyboard 15 minutes before his performane

[NewAge]

Waiting in the front row for Freddie Starr and cast to finish rehearsing so I could tune the piano, he suddenly held up his hand,stopped the band,advanced to the footlights and addressed me " And who might you be my good man?"
I replied that I was the tuner, whereupon he turned to the stage and said"everybody off - this man is more important to the show than all of us together."
Very red-faced I tuned the piano with Freddie Starr occasionally peeping round the curtain and making faces at me or once mooning at me.

Freddie Starr, now there was a hilarious performer.
Which makes me think of another great favourite. Les Dawson. His piano performances were legendary......Anyone can make mistakes, but to do so in a co-ordinated, professional style shows just how clever he was. Here's a brief performance:-
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9nNGlaiVypU.
Did anyone of you here ever tune for him (was it worth the bother ), or know anyone who may have done so, and with any related anecdotes?

[vernon]

only tuned for him in the theatre when he appeared locally.
However, his agent Bill Dickie was my next door neighbour in Broadstairs( Ronnie Corbett was one of his too).
On one occasion, Les Dawson parked in front of the house ,said hello to me as he went to Bill's door.
The other neighbour was a very moany woman who was cleaning her windows at the time, up the steps. Bill must have already mentioned her proclivities to Les Dawson.
As Les Dawson passed her, he took out his teeth,folded up his face and said" By gum, I can see your knickers from here lass."
Not very subtle but it was a joy to watch.

[NewAge]

only tuned for him in the theatre when he appeared locally.
However, his agent Bill Dickie was my next door neighbour in Broadstairs( Ronnie Corbett was one of his too).
On one occasion, Les Dawson parked in front of the house ,said hello to me as he went to Bill's door.
The other neighbour was a very moany woman who was cleaning her windows at the time, up the steps. Bill must have already mentioned her proclivities to Les Dawson.
As Les Dawson passed her, he took out his teeth,folded up his face and said" By gum, I can see your knickers from here lass."
Not very subtle but it was a joy to watch.

Would love to have witnessed that. Classic!

[AroundAgain]

Yes, I prefer absolute silence aswell, but never get it!! I tune a reasonably good piano for a rest home, ... its murder trying to tune.

This morning, at the Residential Home where my father is, a Piano Tuner arrived as I was leaving. I was immediately reminded of this thread - the Morning Service had just started, and goes on for 20 mins! The piano would, most likely, be in use; the lounge jam-packed with zimmers and wheelchairs (Heaven help anyone who needed the loo! ) so I doubt the chap could do anything but to listen to the service!!!

After the service, some of the residents are taken back to their own area (dementia corridor) so lots of activity. Then, coffee is served in the lounge and the remaining residents sit and chat, read newspapers etc.

So, my thought was, why on earth doesn't the Piano Tuner arrange to go in the afternoon, when everyone is having a long nap - guaranteed peace and quiet? I doubt any of the staff have given thought to the need for absolute peace and quiet.

and some strange reason, every time I arrive, they then shuffle their way in with their zimmer frames!! - expecting me to do some kind of concert.

Awww! They have little else happening in their lives, eh? Play on ...

[NewAge]

These comments on Residential Homes got me thinking, "I wonder if inmates if desired would be allowed to have their own digital piano in their rooms".
I'm guessing that one of the biggest losses for the elderly would be not being able to take their pets with them, or perhaps their personal piano - both of which being understandable - but how about a DP? Professionally not something you tuner/technicians would be particularly concerned about of course, but if/when any of us may ever reach a similar situation it's certainly food for thought.
Comments?

[sussexpianos]

The problem with situations like that is the tuner books the appointment but the staff do not have a clue that silence is required. It is up to the staff to arrange a time for the tuner when it is best for him not to get too much noise. I have been in many situations like this, if I go away and come back another time then I have lost a lot of money through no thought of my own.
I have been in prisons(tuning I might add!) with alarms going off, locked up in a room with a radio, or had a guard with me. I have been in old peoples homes where the residents shout, moan and throw stuff at me to stop me tuning, once having the lid slamed down by a resident who got angry because I was ignoring him. I regualry tune pianos on stage when the set crew are setting up with drills, hammers etc going on.
But, I will still tune the piano to the best of my ability, it may not be perfect considering the enviroment but that is not my problem. I simply sugest that next time it might be better to have less noise going on.

[AroundAgain]

The problem with situations like that is the tuner books the appointment but the staff do not have a clue that silence is required. It is up to the staff to arrange a time for the tuner when it is best for him not to get too much noise.

To be honest, I think the responsibility must come down to the tuner to communicate the need for peace and quiet and arrange a suitable time accordingly, ie after lunchtime (when it isn't abnormal for folks to take a long nap). I don't feel the staff can be expected to know of these requirements, unless they just happen to be familiar with piano tuning.

Having said that, I suspect the tuner did a good job, in spite of what was going on around him but I would expect him to be sure of arranging a more suitable time next time around.

[Gill the Piano]

It makes no difference whether the tuner asks for utter silence or not; we get what is convenient for the home/school/hotel, not what we need, I'm afraid. I have schools who express surprise that I can't tune a piano in the main hall at feeding time to the background roar of hordes of ravening weasels, and conference centres who express amazement when I say politely that no, I can't 'do it quietly' even if the suits ARE having a vital meeting about the price of biscuits upstairs...

[AroundAgain]

I'm amazed, Gill. I believe you - but isn't that crazy, to say nothing of lack of respect for your skills!

Only by reading this thread have I ever appreciated the need of quiet for a piano tuner, as I have never had a piano (my parents did but I was never there when it was tuned) and so I was very interested to read the OP by Johnkie. When I read it, it made absolute sense, of course, but I had never given it a thought.

It seems to me that if the people making the appointments were aware of this, they might be able to arrange a better time. In the case of a nursing or residential home, the afternoons are usually very quiet because, as I said, most take a nap after lunch.

I had no idea how this lack of appreciation of what your job involves could make your job so incredibly difficult. You must have amazing hearing!!! ... and patience.

I take my hat off to all piano tuners (metaphorically speaking, as I don't have a hat )

I have to say, I've loved hearing the anecdotes - I do hope there are more to come..

[Johnkie]

I'm amazed, Gill. I believe you - but isn't that crazy, to say nothing of lack of respect for your skills!

Only by reading this thread have I ever appreciated the need of quiet for a piano tuner, as I have never had a piano (my parents did but I was never there when it was tuned) and so I was very interested to read the OP by Johnkie. When I read it, it made absolute sense, of course, but I had never given it a thought.

It seems to me that if the people making the appointments were aware of this, they might be able to arrange a better time. In the case of a nursing or residential home, the afternoons are usually very quiet because, as I said, most take a nap after lunch.

I had no idea how this lack of appreciation of what your job involves could make your job so incredibly difficult. You must have amazing hearing!!! ... and patience.

I take my hat off to all piano tuners (metaphorically speaking, as I don't have a hat )

I have to say, I've loved hearing the anecdotes - I do hope there are more to come..

I've only one thing to say to you AroundAgain ........................................

++++++++++++++++ YOU ARE MY HERO ++++++++++++++++

If only everyone had an attitude like your's ..... you've just about made my day ........... thank you on behalf of us all !!

[quinie]

These comments on Residential Homes got me thinking, "I wonder if inmates if desired would be allowed to have their own digital piano in their rooms".
I'm guessing that one of the biggest losses for the elderly would be not being able to take their pets with them, or perhaps their personal piano - both of which being understandable - but how about a DP? Professionally not something you tuner/technicians would be particularly concerned about of course, but if/when any of us may ever reach a similar situation it's certainly food for thought.
Comments?

Yes. I totally TOTALLY agree.

My husband's grandfather had to go in a home and he was a very talented musician. He played the organ and when he went into the home he had a very small bedroom with no musical instruments in it at all or indeed no facility for playing any music on a record player etc. My mother in law said to me that he was always playing jazz and listening to jazz when he was younger.

I was amazed then when all this was taken away to go into the home.

Apparently he was able to play the piano in the lounge whenever he wanted. He went downhill very quickly once he went into the home and I don't know whether or not he ever did play the "communal" piano - and anyway he was more organ based surely?

I am not a brilliant pianist but it is a big part of my life and I really REALLY enjoy playing.

To think that at a time of my life when I would probably not have much else I would lose my piano would be heartbreaking.

I don't think that people who don't play understand how important it is to somebody who does play to have something to play on!

To be fair to relatives and friends - to me, piano playing seems to be a real dying art. Apart from this forum I don't actually know anybody (alive) who plays or has an interest in it at all - I don't exactly move in wide circles but I expect 60 years ago I would have known a lot of people who could play.

It's very sad and I totally agree that a digital piano (with the full keyboard) should be very much considered. Not everybody likes to play to an audience and I like the solitute of just me and my piano creating beautiful (ish) music together!

As for the original topic of this thread - I am ashamed of myself now - I tend to hang around when my tuner is tuning the piano and chat to him - I find it fasinating what he is doing! I will make sure to leave him be in future! Sorry Mr Tuner!

[Gill the Piano]

Don't be frightened off, Piano Love; just say to your tuner 'Do you mind if I watch? Will it put you off if I chat to you?' I have to say, most domestic tunings it doesn't make an awful lot of difference, but concert/studio tunings or tunings for professioinal/good amateur musos is a different kettle of fish!
And i thought of this thread whilst tuning in a school today....on the whole it would have been quieter to tune at an Iron Maiden gig. By a Formula 1 track. In Beirut.