Erard baby grand

Smin · Post by **Smin** » 16 Apr 2011, 20:31

Hello,

I have owned an Erard baby grand piano for 35 years. The lady I purchased from told me it had been in her (European) family many years and was brought to the US from Europe. It is small, 4'5", very simple lines, squared legs.

I can find very few clues:
On the soundboard, beneath the strings, there is faint, very ornate handwriting (not stamped). It is difficult to read, but may say "Paris, France."
We also see "Schwander Brevete" stamped on a board for the key mechanisms.

I have recently become curious about the piano's age/value. We can only find 2 numbers:
1. On the board behind the key slip, handwritten in pencil, it is faint, but appears to have a couple of initials, perhaps G D or B, followed by the numbers 3832.
2. Stamped on the metal left pedal damper lever, it appears to be SF153.3. I suppose what we see as 'F' could be a '7' as some people draw a small line thru a 7, which makes it appear as a "F" to me?

Do any of these numbers give you a clue as to the piano's age?

Thank you so much for your time, I appreciate it very much.

Colin Nicholson · Post by **Colin Nicholson** » 16 Apr 2011, 21:12

With respect....best to send some photos of the piano and all these numbers etc.... many will be irrelevant, so we can decide which numbers are important, and which ones can be eliminated.

Smin · Post by **Smin** » 16 Apr 2011, 21:59

Thank you for the comment/suggestion. I will upload photos soon. However, having said that, the writing is so faint, it will probably be impossible to capture with a photo, but I'll try.

Post by **Bill Kibby** » 16 Apr 2011, 22:21

None of these appear to be Erard serial numbers. Schwander evidently made the action, and "brevet" is a French word for a patent, so it is probably a Paris Erard made before 1920, when Herrburger Brooks came into being, and took over the Schwander name. However, photos may not help with baby grands of the 1900s, which are notoriously difficult to date. The serial number is most likely to be on the soundboard, to the left of the strings.

Smin · Post by **Smin** » 16 Apr 2011, 23:11

For your review, I have attached a photo of the Erard baby grand piano. Unfortunately, I am only allowed to attach 1 photo. It is extremely difficult to photograph the faint handwriting that I mentioned in the earlier post.
Please feel free to let me know if I can provide additional information. Thank you, I am grateful for your assistance.

Smin · Post by **Smin** » 16 Apr 2011, 23:28

Mr Kibby, thank you for your prompt reply. I have searched but cannot find any additional numbers or clues. I did notice a post by FFChopin on March 15 which included a photograph of a signature and stamped number on his Erard concert grand. On our piano, in the center of the board underneath the keys and behind the key slip, handwritten in pencil we can see initials GB followed by the number 3832. Perhaps it was the custom of the day, but the handwritten "G" looks exactly the same as the handwritten "G" on FFChopin's photo. Perhaps a small clue???
Thank you for your kind assistance, I fear the mystery may never be solved!!

Post by **Bill Kibby** » 17 Apr 2011, 00:00

It has been bugging my brain that I cannot ever recall an Erard with a Schwander action, and not one single reference to Schwander occurs in all my many files on Erards. I don't know what this means for your piano!

Smin · Post by **Smin** » 17 Apr 2011, 00:31

Well,,,,another mystery!

Colin Nicholson · Post by **Colin Nicholson** » 17 Apr 2011, 00:47

Certainly is a mystery!
Can you tell us where the name 'Erard' is written?...... cast iron frame? soundboard?

Under normal circumstances, the name Erard should also be clearly shown on the fallboard - and possibly brass-inlaid with it. Has the piano been re-polished recently?
Also many keys seem to very uneven or sticking, and the castors are missing?

As Bill says, virtually impossible to date accurately without actually seeing the serial number in a photo, and the name 'Erard' - but I would never trust a hand-written name anyway.... won't mean anything, and anyone could have written it.... possibly a piano tuner, or when some repairs were done.

If you click on 'post reply' again, you can upload another photo, and just keep doing that every time. The serial number will be either near the bass strings, on the soundboard, or maybe on the cast iron frame near the tuning pins - and best to remove the music rest completely - and take some photos from a close aerial view.... dont worry about the handwriting.

Smin · Post by **Smin** » 17 Apr 2011, 01:02

Yes, the piano was refinished a number of years ago. Unfortunately, the name was removed at that time. However, it was written on the invoice and we distinctly remember the name and scroll pattern. I think it was on the board above the cover that raises and lowers to cover the keys. Is that the fallboard? As you can recognize, even though I have owned the piano for many years, I am a complete novice when it comes to pianos. I apologize for not knowing the correct names.
The keys were aligned until we removed the key slip today, now they seem to be misaligned and/or sticking. This poor little piano needs much attention

Smin · Post by **Smin** » 17 Apr 2011, 01:11

Thank you, PianoLove, I hope so too.

Smin · Post by **Smin** » 17 Apr 2011, 01:15

OK, so now that all of you know I am completely inept at all things musical, can anyone tell me the purpose of this little lever? The photo shows it in it's upright position, but when it is closed, it is completey hidden. I have always wondered........

Smin · Post by **Smin** » 17 Apr 2011, 03:03

Hello Once Again,

Upon further investigation and searching---

The number "3832" is stamped underneath the keyboard on the front right corner.
The number "3832" is stamped on the top of the lyre.
Oddly, this is the same number that is written in pencil (with initials GB) on the front and center of the board that is visible when we remove the key slip. According to website research, the serial number can sometimes be found in this area.

We also discovered a handwritten signature followed by the number 1838---(perhaps a date???)--- on the top of the wooden board where the rear leg is attached. We have tried to obtain photos, but it is so cramped, it is difficult to get the correct angle.

So, have I further deepened the mystery or are we on our way to solving the mystery?

Thanks to all of you for your kind assistance. PS--will try to upload additional photos

Smin · Post by **Smin** » 17 Apr 2011, 03:04

Upon detaching the lyre, we discovered the same "3832" stamped on the top.

Smin · Post by **Smin** » 17 Apr 2011, 03:12

The signature and 1838 are written on top of this board. As you can see, it is a cramped space; we had to use a mirror to see it !!

Thanks to all of you.

Post by **Bill Kibby** » 17 Apr 2011, 10:55

This is certainly not an 1838 piano, it is twentieth-century. The strange lever looks like the kind of thing that would be used to prop the top open, or hold a music desk at the right angle, but it is not in the right place for either of these purposes, and I can only imagine it might be to hold the front portion of the top lid open, although I can't see how that would be safe.

I think my trouble is that it is more modern than the antiques I normally deal with, and was perhaps made after the large Erard factories closed, hence the Schwander action. SOmewhere on the action there may be Schwander's own number, and this may help. It will be a large number, probably 6 or 7 digits, with no letters attached. If you look at the bottom of the Numbers page on my website pianogen.org you will find some dates of Schwander numbers.

Smin · Post by **Smin** » 17 Apr 2011, 14:53

Yes, Bill, we have always assumed the piano to be more modern. As I mentioned in my first post, the lines are very simple, it is not ornate.

Due to it's appearance several times, I think the number '3832' has significance. I am reluctant to tinker with the action, probably best to leave that to an expert. We have relocated and I must find a new piano tuner. Now that we have raised our curiosity, perhaps I can also locate someone with expertise in dating the piano.

Many thanks for your time and assistance, Sheila

Post by **Bill Kibby** » 17 Apr 2011, 16:00

What I meant was that the French lettering on the Schwander seems to imply a date before 1920, but since the numbers don't relate to Erards of that period, perhaps it is very modern, but you say it was old in 1975.

Colin Nicholson · Post by **Colin Nicholson** » 17 Apr 2011, 16:04

Sheila

The numbers 3832 in various places suggests to be the cabinet/parts numbers. They were often assembled in different locations in a factory, and then brought together during the final stages of manufacture - this number is never recorded, and only unique to piano personnel at the time. Rather like a car chassis number etched on the bulkhead, one one a metal plate, and maybe another on a door pillar. Is there a lever at the other end aswell?

I can't see this ever holding the weight of the top lid!! - however if one is at the other end aswell, then maybe an "accompaniment prop" for when the piano is used during accompaniment or non-solo parts in music, but this usually at the right side of the piano, either as a separate prop, or incorporated into the main prop.

Are you any nearer finding the name Erard on the piano itself? - inside......

Smin · Post by **Smin** » 17 Apr 2011, 16:54

Bill, according to the lady we purchased from, the piano had been in her family for many years and was imported to the US when her family came here. Unfortunately, I don't have any further info and do not recall any additional details. In our naivete', we were purchasing the piano for our young daughter to learn piano, not for it's potential value. In fact, I don't think "value" ever crossed our minds until we recently considered selling it.

Colin, no, the little lever would never hold the weight of the lid. It does not lock in the upright position; if weight was added, it would simply fold back down into the slot--see photo. No, there is only one lever, on the left side of the piano only. I guess this is just another one of those seemingly unexplainable oddities about this little piano.

So far, we have been unable to find any additional identifying markings. Having said that, yesterday, I also said we couldn't find any

To my surprise, more careful searching revealed the info I shared in my last posts. So,,,,,we will continue searching and once I find a new tuner, perhaps he/she will be able to assist.

Feel free to post additional comments or questions. For the time being, I seem to be at a standstill until someone with greater expertise can check the action, look at the keys (which are ivory, by the way), etc. We have dismantled as much as we feel comfortable with, afraid to venture much further. Thanks so much,,,,,Sheila

Smin · Post by **Smin** » 17 Apr 2011, 17:03

FYI---here is a photo of the interior. This is a tiny little piano, only 4ft,5inches.

In 1994, some restoration work was done, new strings, tuning pins, felt,,,,etc. Needed to be done, but probably a mistake from the standpoint of dating the piano. If I recall correctly, the metal plate was painted. Uhggg,,probably painted over any markings.

Many thanks, Sheila

Smin · Post by **Smin** » 17 Apr 2011, 17:28

Well,,,,,shame on me! Once again, I am definitely not of an 'engineering' mind. I just do not see mechanical details. Of course, my husband notices this little notch in the underside of the lid and voila!!,,the little lever does indeed support the lid !!!

OK, no more posts for me unless he checks it out first

Thanks----and you're welcome for your chuckle of the day------ Sheila

Post by **vernon** » 17 Apr 2011, 18:29

I'm a bit concerned that the name "disappeared" when the case was "refinished." That suggests it was a transfer and not brass inlay like all Erards. Is it indeed an Erard?

Smin · Post by **Smin** » 17 Apr 2011, 18:45

You could be correct-----we may be trying to corral the wind.
No brass inlay, however, I have seen photos of other Erard pianos that have the same 'label' that was on our piano.

Colin Nicholson · Post by **Colin Nicholson** » 17 Apr 2011, 19:43

If anyone is wondering about giving this piano a name...... here is a little something to make you ponder!

Two identical buses. Which one looks genuine?

: BUS ad.jpg (34.12 KiB) Viewed 51312 times

How many of you said the Typhoo bus looks genuine? mmmm
Well, the answer is NEITHER!
Typhoo is just an advert on the side of the bus......

Barry · Post by **Barry** » 17 Apr 2011, 23:24

I think I've solved the mystery. It appears to be of c1930's vintage. Found one that looks remarkably similar that had been sold. Ref-(http://www.pianopavilion.com/erard_walnut_grand.htm). As to the authenticity of it's manufacturer, I found a faint printing in french script on the soundboard. It reads: Par Brevet Le Invention, Seb. & Pre-Erard, 13& 21 me due Mail, Paris.(Sorry if this is incorrect as the printing is difficult to read.). I therefore think the mystery has been solved. Much regards for the help and interrest of all involved.
Barry

MarkGoodwinPianos · Post by **MarkGoodwinPianos** » 18 Apr 2011, 07:41

I would much rather be seen riding the 2nd bus!!

MarkGoodwinPianos · Post by **MarkGoodwinPianos** » 18 Apr 2011, 09:05

p.s. I could be wrong but it doesn't look correct (or safe) having the lid propped up like this. Are you sure it's designed to be propped up like that?

Post by **Bill Kibby** » 18 Apr 2011, 10:08

Although I have very little interest in vehicles, I love the bus analogy. I agree Mark, I had already decided that it couldn't possibly be safe to prop the front part of the top like that, but obviously I was wrong! I couldn't get that link for the other one to work, but I don't quite see how that solves the mystery. It is obviously a real Erard, probably Paris, but my estimate of 1918 doesn't seem to have any hard evidence.

Smin · Post by **Smin** » 18 Apr 2011, 15:05

Bill and Mark, I agree, it does not seem safe, especially since it is supported only on the left side and as I stated earlier, the lever does not lock in the upright position, it very easily pivots up and down with no resistance. It is difficult to see in the photo; there is a little notch cut into the underside of the lid that aligns perfectly with the top tapered end of the lever. When the lever is inserted into the notch, the two pieces become "locked" together. I can only assume the backward angle of the lever combined with the forward weight of the lid create the proper balance. So, yes, I believe this is the intention. However, for safety reasons, I would never leave it in that position. But at least the question seems to have been resolved.

Sorry the link is not working. I have scanned the page and attached, hopefully you can open it. If it works, I will also send you the scan of the printing on the soundboard that Barry mentioned.

Thank you, Sheila

Smin · Post by **Smin** » 18 Apr 2011, 15:37

Rather than using the link, just enter the following web address into your browser:

http://www.pianopavilion.com/erard_walnut_grand.htm

The photo looks like our piano, even the "Odeon" style legs are the same, and they note the size is 4ft, 6ins, so it is also a little petite, the same as our piano. In an earlier post, someone mentioned the absence of casters on our piano. I don't recall casters ever having been present and then removed. It is interesting to note the Erard in this photo also does not have casters but has little brass plates--we also have those little plates at the bottom of the legs.

By the way, the name "Schwander" is stamped on the bottom of the first bass key. We can't look much further without fear our inexperience may create damage. Sometimes things are better left to the experts.

I can't be positive until I find the serial number, but I am beginning to think perhaps early 1930's.....

Thanks, Sheila

Post by **Bill Kibby** » 18 Apr 2011, 18:54

Once baby grands got into the 1900s, they changed so very little that it is difficult to guess their age, quite apart from the fact that the legs and pedal lyre are often changed. I couldn't separate this, with its square tapered legs, from a 1914, or a 1945. Interesting that Schwander made the keys, I rarely find that name on keys.

Smin · Post by **Smin** » 18 Apr 2011, 19:08

Unfortunately I didn't take a photo, but the key was stamped "Schwander" and the number "112" was also stamped on the key. I assumed that was the norm, now I think perhaps it is another oddity since you do not see it often and that it is stamped, not written. Uhmmmmm????

Are you familiar with the writing that is on the soundboard? I believe Barry (my mechanical minded other half!) quoted it in his earlier post?

Johnkie · Post by **Johnkie** » 18 Apr 2011, 20:19

I have been watching this thread with quite a great deal of interest. From the photographs I personally would estimate this grand slap bang into the Art Deco period i.e.1930s - 1940s. It is not like any other example that I've ever seen that was manufactured by Erard. The small "lid stay" is, to my mind totally wrong.

Having been refurbished at some point in the not too distant past, I assume it was re-polished .... and there in may hold the reason for this ridiculus "lid stay". If it were meant to be a safe and servicable lid stay, the curve should be on the underside to ensure that it couldn't become dislodged by accident.

This leads me to think that when it was re-assembled after polishing, it was put on the wrong side

(Bass) instead of the correct side (Treble). The curve would then be underneath and fit securely where the long lid stay comes into contact with the grand top. Without seeing it, I can't be 100% sure, but it's the only thing that makes sense. In my years in this trade, I've seen too many examples of parts not being replaced correctly, and this example just begs the question ..... is this another?

If this explanation is to hold any water of course, then the notch that it fits into at the moment must have been added by someone who knew no better.

Colin Nicholson · Post by **Colin Nicholson** » 18 Apr 2011, 21:52

...... and I bet who did it, did it for the love of their job!!!!

Smin · Post by **Smin** » 19 Apr 2011, 16:50

Thanks for your comments, however, with all due respect, I disagree. While, yes, the "lid stay" does not seem adequate, the design, finished surfaces, the little glide rail for the music tray, the support bracket for the full upright lid stay, the cut out for the metal plate, etc. clearly indicate the section with the ridiculus "lid stay" (your words, not mine) is located as intended by the designer/builder of the piano, the left (bass) side. The corresponding left and right pieces are not interchangeable.

While I acknowledge your greater expertise in pianos, my comment derives purely from a construction point of view. It may very well be something you have not see before, but, nonetheless, I assure you it will not properly fit on the right (treble) side of the piano. Nor will the corresponding section currently on the right (treble) side fit on the left (bass) side of the piano.Of course, my comment assumes I understand you correctly,,,,perhaps I have misunderstood your suggestion?

By the way, please explain the term "grand slap bang."

Post by **vernon** » 19 Apr 2011, 18:39

Smin a ' charaid,
I'm sure the lid prop will be original. Anyone with experience will have come across all manner of strange apps in older pianos.The Victorians were absolutely crackers and couldn't stop inventing gadgets on pianos and that predilection has continued, apparently into Erard times.Sales of Goods Act and Health and Safety didn't apply in those days.I wonder how many pianists have been killed by falling Erard grand lids.Must be numbered in 100's.
The old celeste pedal was dumped in the 30's to be resurrected as the" practice pedal" obligatory on all new pianos nowadays.. In fact the celeste was the only "soft pedal" that ever worked.How many of us dealers have had clients complaining that the "soft pedal doesn't work,"when in fact it works fine but just doesn't make any noticeable difference when applied!
vis a vis the Erard-- have you seen an old grand where the "loud" pedal actually raises and lowers the whole grand lid? The old upright with the una corda pedal? Or the grand with louvres aspiring to the same result?
Read Rosamund Harding's book( obtainable from Heckschers)on Pianos to 1851.

Johnkie · Post by **Johnkie** » 19 Apr 2011, 20:46

Smin : It would seem that you're convinced that the small lid stay is totally in keeping with the original design, and I certainly am not in any position (having not examined the instrument) to argue otherwise. It does however appear so unsafe ! Had the design had any merit others would have also introduced it.

I have seen music desk guides installed incorrectly ... from your pictures I can't quite see whether each has something to arrest it from going in too far. If they do then you are perfectly correct in stating that they are fitted properly. If they don't have stops of some sort, then it is perfectly possible for them to have been replaced in the wrong position. The hinging of the stay (in my opinion ) is wrong because it should hinge from the front .. that one small change in design would increase both safety and stability.

On a much lighter note .... the term "grand slap bang" merely is an old saying to indicate that something is in the middle .... e.g "He didn't hesitate to get grand slap bang into the middle of the fight" - So I was meaning the the date was grand slap bang in the middle of 1930s - 1940s (1935).

NewAge · Post by **NewAge** » 19 Apr 2011, 20:54

Smin wrote:Thanks for your comments, however, with all due respect, I disagree. While, yes, the "lid stay" does not seem adequate, the design, finished surfaces, the little glide rail for the music tray, the support bracket for the full upright lid stay, the cut out for the metal plate, etc. clearly indicate the section with the ridiculus "lid stay" (your words, not mine) is located as intended by the designer/builder of the piano, the left (bass) side. The corresponding left and right pieces are not interchangeable.

While I acknowledge your greater expertise in pianos, my comment derives purely from a construction point of view. It may very well be something you have not see before, but, nonetheless, I assure you it will not properly fit on the right (treble) side of the piano. Nor will the corresponding section currently on the right (treble) side fit on the left (bass) side of the piano.Of course, my comment assumes I understand you correctly,,,,perhaps I have misunderstood your suggestion?

By the way, please explain the term "grand slap bang."

Smin,
I love a mystery, and this has intrigued me too.
When you first posted the photo of the l/h side of the piano showing the 'occupied' slot, I was convinced it was where the short prop (or stick) was housed, and was preparing a reply to that effect when I noticed you then posted again with photo showing the short stick in position. However, whilst this was debated, I set about going through my photo database of many french pianos - which I take a particular interest in - by virtue of my location. One thing which did bother me was, that although I was convinced that it was the correct positioning of the short stick, I couldn't recall ever seeing the top lid of an Erard open and retained on the short stick, either in showrooms here, in auction houses, or in photos. And it was that which motivated me to do a thorough search through my own database of photos and elsewhere.
After many hours, to date I have still failed to find any photo of a short stick deployed on an Erard.
However I've convinced myself that your piano is correct and that nothing has obviously been incorrectly assembled, at least related to the left-hand slot location for the short stick.
I back up this statement with this http://193.164.197.40/images/536/5361325847.jpg. A very small Erard similar to your own, this model being 1m 30 and dated as 1938. One can see on the top l/h side of the rim the short stick located in its slot.
Here's another 1/4 grand Erard http://193.164.197.50/images/607/6072506629.jpg where one can just observe on the far l/h side the end of the prop location slot. Another also of a very small Erard where I could just make out a similar stick location on the l/h side. It's interesting to note that after studying many photos of 1/2 grands and 3/4 grands that none appear to have a similar feature, and I think it's highly likely that this feature was confined to the very small 1/4 grand Erard models - known as crapaud (toad) in French. Here too is another 1/4 grand Erard, http://193.164.196.40/images/407/4079418984.jpg and for some reason what looks like the short stick has been temporarily left inside the piano on the harp, adjacent to the long prop.

NewAge · Post by **NewAge** » 19 Apr 2011, 21:16

And now just to excite 'PianoLove'.
Today I saw ads for 2 reasonable looking upright Erards, both with fancy cabinets, priced at 1€ or highest offer.
Not my tasse de thé, but for those who like to dream, or spin the dice.......

Phiphi · Post by **Phiphi** » 09 Jul 2011, 16:45

Hi,

I am new on this forum. I am retrieving this old post because I just had an Erard 0 delivered this morning. When looking for a piano in the last couple of months, I had discussions about Erard on a French forum.

From these discussions, and looking at adverts on French websites, I learnt a few things that may be useful to you. I also order a book on Erard pianos written by Rene Beaupain, but it's been sent to an address in France, and it will be a few weeks before I get there. I'll can then give more detailled information.

1) The baby grand model was called 00, probably because it was a smaller version of the 0.
2) Erard pianos were fitted with Schwander action since the 1940s. Probably an effect of the standardisation of piano manufacturing. In the same time, the Erard mellow timbre evolved to become brighter and closer to Pleyel, which was more successful thanks to their "all purpose" tone. For example, I got in touch with someone owning 2 0-type pianos from 1927 and 1952. The latter is "Schwander-fitted", and doesn't sound as Erard, although this difference shouldn't be caused by the action only.
3) The style of the 00 did not evolve much during production. This piano is probably post-war because of the Schwander action.
4) In my 0-type, the serial number is found on the left of the Bass strings, next to the dampers. I don't know about the 00. If this 00 is post-war, the No should be over 125500.
5) When looking at adds, I saw several baby or small grands (Erard or Gaveau), of the same period or earlier, fitted with the lid prop to keep the small flap opened:
http://www.leboncoin.fr/instruments_de_ ... tm?ca=12_s
http://www.leboncoin.fr/instruments_de_ ... tm?ca=12_s
http://www.leboncoin.fr/instruments_de_ ... tm?ca=12_s
http://www.leboncoin.fr/instruments_de_ ... tm?ca=12_s

Note that the Erard 00 in this adds is not fitted with castors.

When I'll be able to look up this book, I can give you more details about the 00 if you wish.

Post by **Bill Kibby** » 13 Jul 2011, 15:20

It still amuses me that someone trying to sell an instrument describes it as a "toad"! I'd be interested to know if the book contains any useful information about Erard's London business. One of the things that made Erards' sound distinctive was the fact that they were so much behind the times in their technical design, apart from their wonderful actions. Theirs was a more traditional sound, and their iron frames were very late developers. I don't know what you mean by "the small flap".

Phiphi · Post by **Phiphi** » 13 Jul 2011, 17:14

Bill Kibby wrote:It still amuses me to see a piano for sale being described as a "toad"!

The legend says that this name was given by one of the main French composers (Ravel? Poulenc? I need to check), who didn't like the style of the baby grand he saw for the first time and said that it looks like a toad.

I don't know what you mean by "the small flap".

I call "flap" the front part of the lid. And I call it small because the rest of the lid is larger. If there is a proper name for the "small flap", please let me know. I will be happy to add it to my English vocabulary.

Smin · Post by **Smin** » 13 Jul 2011, 17:21

Hello Phiphi,

Thank you for your comments and the additional information about our little Erard. Unfortunately, I have not had a chance to follow up on locating further markings on our piano so I have no new information to add. I appreciate your time and look forward to your further research information.

Thanks so much, Sheila

Post by **Bill Kibby** » 13 Jul 2011, 18:10

I don't think it is much to do with normal English vocabulary, more to do with specific piano nomenclature or terminology. For us piano geeks, there is no "lid", only a "top" and a "fall", [or fallboard for those who learned their trade from American books] but I get what you are saying now, some Erards had that precarious looking prop that lifted the front end of the top, and directed the sound towards the pianist, provided he or she did not want to read music. We have a photo in a recent Erard posting here.

I think Poulenc was too much of a newcomer, baby grands were starting to flourish when Ravel was a young man, following the virtual demise of the square piano in the 1880s. They may have looked like toads, but it has become a popular description in the English trade, because by the time space is taken up with the keys and action, a baby grand leaves very little space for string length or soundboard area, hence the burping tonal quality of many of the horrid little things. A notabeable exception would Steck's baby grands, which are astounding for their size.