Neumeyer Berlin

[Thelma]

We have a very 'posh' looking Neumyer piano with Neumyer Berlin on the frame. The keys are finished with ivory and there is a carved front panel. Serial number 31484. I tried following advice given on this website and asked our local library about Pierce Piano Atlas, but they said they couldn't get it. On the right hand end by the keyboard there is a little brass label saying Pollard''s Musical Instrument Depot Burnley (with two apostrophes—anyone know why?)
We got the piano in the 1980's from a disabled man in Northampton who, as I remember it, restored pianos as a hobby and had done some work on this piano.
I would be delighted if anyone can give me any information about this piano and its history. Would Pollard''s have imported German pianos?
Just a year ago started to learn to play it, I'm half a century late starting, but I have grown very fond of the piano. Musically I understand it is OK as a beginners piano, but this beginner wishes it would stay in tune a bit better!
I have some photos, but as a newcomer I am having difficulty posting more than one of them.

[MarkGoodwinPianos]

Wow!! She is a beauty!
I don't suppose you can show some photos of the insides too?

Thanks for sharing your piano with us. I'm sure someone will have some useful info for you soon.


Mark

[Johnkie]

I would put its age down as around 1904 ish - Pollards would have just been the suppliers. It is a huge beast, but pure quality through and through. The sound and power must be fabulous - although you do mention the tuning not staying put for very long. I wouldn't be surprised if central heating has has taken its toll in the instrument. Has your tuner given you any indication that the wrestpins (Tuning pins) are on the loose side ?
As Mark has already said, some additional photos of the inside would be very nice to look at to get a more overall flavour of the condition, and perhaps more importantly, whether it may be worth spending a little money on. The workmanship and standard of attention to detail is quite something to see these days.

[Colin Nicholson]

Very nice looking instrument!
I don't think the serial numbers were recorded for these piano (none in my Pierce Atlas), and I suspect this may not be the serial number? - as it has too many numbers.... I would date this possible pre- 1900. Where did you find these numbers? The left & right front panels have a square section of wood in the middle of each ---- unusual! Perhaps this might be hiding the screw holes & dark polished areas of previously fitted sconces?

Nonetheless, very attractive....
just click on 'post reply' to add more photos - you can't send more than 1 photo per post.

[Thelma]

Wow!! She is a beauty!
I don't suppose you can show some photos of the insides too?

Thanks for sharing your piano with us. I'm sure someone will have some useful info for you soon.


Mark

It’s really great to hear from people who feel the same way as I do about this piano! Unfortunately I don't have any photos of the inside, only what you can see with the lid up. I will take some next time the piano is tuned, in about a month’s time. I don't know why I didn't take any last time it was tuned.

[Thelma]

I would put its age down as around 1904 ish - Pollards would have just been the suppliers. It is a huge beast, but pure quality through and through. The sound and power must be fabulous - although you do mention the tuning not staying put for very long. I wouldn't be surprised if central heating has has taken its toll in the instrument. Has your tuner given you any indication that the wrestpins (Tuning pins) are on the loose side ?
As Mark has already said, some additional photos of the inside would be very nice to look at to get a more overall flavour of the condition, and perhaps more importantly, whether it may be worth spending a little money on. The workmanship and standard of attention to detail is quite something to see these days.

I'm completely new to all this, it's not out of the question to spend some money on this piano, but it's hard to get the measure of what is reasonable. I'll certainly ask about the wrestpins.
With regards to condition, a pianist has observed that the lower notes lack resonance, and wondered if the sound board was cracked. Also there is some rust on the strings and the issue with it staying in tune. In case it's not obvious, it's an overstrung piano. I think a lot of the felt must have been seen to in the 1980's, it's had very little use since then— until last year.

[Thelma]

Very nice looking instrument!
I don't think the serial numbers were recorded for these piano (none in my Pierce Atlas), and I suspect this may not be the serial number? - as it has too many numbers.... I would date this possible pre- 1900. Where did you find these numbers? The left & right front panels have a square section of wood in the middle of each ---- unusual! Perhaps this might be hiding the screw holes & dark polished areas of previously fitted sconces?

Nonetheless, very attractive....
just click on 'post reply' to add more photos - you can't send more than 1 photo per post.

Actually the two raised sections of wood have the screw holes for the sconces in them, see photo.
The person we got the piano from said it was 'too old to have a serial number'. When I quoted this to the tuner, he said of course it had a number, and found this one. Unfortunately at the moment I don't know where on the piano he found it, I'll have to wait till next month when he comes and all will be revealed.

[Thelma]

It is a huge beast, but pure quality through and through. The sound and power must be fabulous - although you do mention the tuning not staying put for very long. The workmanship and standard of attention to detail is quite something to see these days.

Cor...yes..I am almost drooling at the sight of it! I LOVE the antique ones- they are so beautiful and full of history and chracter and when restored sound awesome! I much prefer these old beauties to the black vinyl ones of today.

Thought you might like to see this photo of the carved front panel, the light was just right when I took it!

[NewAge]

Thelma,

This appears to be a very sturdy piano with striking looks, and imho could well benefit from continued tender loving care, and a modest amount of money to restore its voice and possibly the action.
One of the first things I noticed was the corrosion on a few of the trichord unwound strings in your 3rd photo. Strings lose their bloom and their resonance with age, especially when corrosion is present. We can't see much of the bass strings, but judging from the condition of the others there could well be corrosion between and below the windings.
The hammers appear to have been reconditioned and are pretty well aligned - although the photo doesn't allow us to comment on the amount of wear.
You say you wish it would stay in tune longer. The precise condition of the pin-block together with possible restringing is something your tuner should advise on.
You state that you bought the piano from a man who restored pianos as a hobby and had done some work on this piano. Also that this person said it was 'too old to have a serial number'. That of course is nonsense, and in my view questions his credibility and perhaps some of the work he performed on it.
Last point, if it were my piano I would most definitely move it further away from that grand, elegant-looking, open fireplace, especially if you occasionally have a roaring fire there. Extremes of temperature and stable tuning do not go hand in hand.
Please keep us advised on your decisions, and the pianos future welfare.

[Johnkie]

The rust on the strings (as shown in the photo) appears to be typical of localised rusting caused by water dripping through the top hinge .... something has been spilt on the piano top! Otherwise they don't look too bad. The tuning instability and dullness in some of the bass notes may well be duff bass strings (quite often find the Bass singles are effected first) and a soft plank ( pin block as some would say ). The only sure way to tell is to get an honest assessment from a professional tuner/technician. It certainly looks worth exploring further though.

[Colin Nicholson]

Thelma, thanks for the added photos & confirming my suspicions about those holes where the sconces are missing. I hate to see this happen, but sometimes the brass plate, hinge slot & candle stick holders can be worth a fair bit alone - but they are sometimes removed so not to give away the true age of a piano - or that someone was desparate to weigh-in and melt down the brass!!

A decent shaded shellac stick, melted down on a palette knife and quickly wiped over the holes will help to disguise the holes for the time being - but there are various replacement scones if you want to replace them - but they are not cheap.

"Tuning stability" is a main subject here, and although the piano has had some extensive work done to it - the wrest plank, and strings are un-touched for various reasons.... so I sometimes use the term.... "mutton dressed as lamb" !! (sorry, but its true). The tightness of the tuning pins comes down purely to the tuner's experience in knowing the right 'feel' and 'torque' for each tuning pin. There is often a spongy feeling to the pin.... but this is like trying to explain in words exactly how tight to tighten a nut and bolt, and how the tightness 'feels' - and it can't be explained here. Some new strings would be great, and I suspect the lowest bass strings are even longer than some baby grands - but this also depends on the overall condition of the wrest plank, and original "spongyness" and stability of the existing tuning pins??

[Thelma]

Wow- the workmanship on its panel! They don't make pianos like this anymore! As for its serial number- if you lift up the panel on the top of the piano (where its strings are as in the photo you showed) the serial number is carved on the rim - left side I think. That's where it is on my Piano.

Yes! A whole row of characters. From left to right:

153 A20L(or1) AP 6932 stamped out and replaced by 6975

Any clues here to the piano's age or history?

[Thelma]

Thelma,

. . . Last point, if it were my piano I would most definitely move it further away from that grand, elegant-looking, open fireplace, especially if you occasionally have a roaring fire there. Extremes of temperature and stable tuning do not go hand in hand.
Please keep us advised on your decisions, and the pianos future welfare.

I'm afraid that the elegant fireplace has a useless flue and can't be used without spending a small fortune on it, so the piano is safe!

[Thelma]

Thelma,
. . . . . You state that you bought the piano from a man who restored pianos as a hobby and had done some work on this piano. Also that this person said it was 'too old to have a serial number'. That of course is nonsense, and in my view questions his credibility and perhaps some of the work he performed on it . . . .

In fairness to the man, I think I should have said that the story handed down was that the piano had no serial number. Reading through the responses to this post, I am thinking that he must actually have said that the number was not listed, not that it didn't exist. I didn't deal with him myself.

[Colin Nicholson]

Hi there
As I mentioned on Friday, there are no serial numbers recorded in the Pierce Piano - Atlas for this piano make - so there is nothing to go by, unless Bill or someone else has any hidden away!

I think the right hand numbers will be a cabinet number - usually on the top left or right edge of the piano (just inside the top lid), facing the ceiling?? these are not serial numbers - and the other numbers/ letters will probably just refer to the factory staff - and never any records of these are kept. This is a bit like buying something from Argos.... keeping it for a 100 years, then showing the customer ticket number that was called out all those years ago - only if this existed! Sometimes, the parts are stamped while being assembled, to then later be identified and assembled in the factory. On my piano, there is a 'C1' and 'C2' - raised lettering - at the base of each metal action bracket (where the ball of the bracket fits into a socket) - these are basically telling someone in the factory "left" and "right" - and are meaningless to us.

Sometimes, dates and "tuner's notes" are written in pencil on the side or top of a piano key - these may not show the original date, but when there was activity, or perhaps a repair. You will need to completely remove the front music rest board, fallboard & key rail to remove a key - try bottom A.

Just for your info... if the serial numbers were recorded, and that you successfully found it - note that a serial number is never 'crossed out' or stamped over with another set of numbers. Sometimes the serial number is shown in a couple of places inside a piano - but the two sets of numbers will be identical. On some pianos, the serial number is stamped in black ink on the end few hammers, each hammer head top having a separate number, then sometimes that same set of numbers can be found say on the wrest plank, cast frame, or on the soundboard.

Anyway, hope that helps....

[Bill Kibby]

Thomas Pollard was in Burnley, Lancashire from at least the 1880s to the 1950s, but was not amaker. Many dealers sold imported German pianos, including Neumeyer. I am just back from holiday, will try to find more info.