Erard Piano - How old?

[FFChopin]

Hello,
I have recently aquired a beautiful Erard concert Grand piano in Rosewood veneer. It was made in London and I am wondering about the age of it... I believe it to be around 1880...
It appears to be stamped with the serial number 2713, and to the left of this there is a signature which appears to say: "G G Blackford" in script writing.
Any information is kindly appreciated! I will soon be having a complete overhaul done on this piano to restore it to its beautiful original state! But then I will get no work done because I will always be playing it!

Thank you in advance!

[Bill Kibby]

The number suggests that it was made in 1850, but without photos, I cannot guess if this is likely. Erards were wonderful pianos, but often deceptively behind the times technically. If you know how to remove the action safely, it should be marked with the year on the left-hand end. I would be interested to know.

G.G. Blackford is a familiar name, but not one conveniently to hand on computer, I will try to find it on card and paper files.

[FFChopin]

Thank you for your very fast reply!
Here is a picture of the piano in question:

And here are the marks I described:


The piano is not yet in my posession, but I have purchased it and will be picking it up next week.
Regards,
Sam

[Colin Nicholson]

Bill, do you think this is the serial number?
Not sure if I'm right, but do the serial numbers for c.1850 consist of 5 digits? (#22000)
Unless you have different numbers/source to me - could this piano be much earlier?
Doesn't look that old, but with the 'square' back - could be earlier....
Cheers

CN

[Bill Kibby]

This is Erard London, and about 30 years ago, I was the first to publish some dates of their numbers, in Musicians Piano Atlas, which have been updated at
http://pianohistory.info/numbers.html

There is always a concern about accuracy with numbers, but these Erards are usually dated inside the piano, and this seems about right.

[pipeorganist]

I have an 1862 London Erard that looks just like yours. The serial number on mine is 7280 and the name P.W. Price is engraved below. If you take out the action and look at the very back on the side of the lowest note you should be able to clearly see the date.

[Bill Kibby]

Thanks for that, it's nice to have another confirmed date. The position of the date-mark is mentioned on a number of postings on this forum, and on my own website, but most non-trade people are not comfortable about removing the action on an old piano, and we don't push them to do it themselves because they can so easily break parts, so it is usually left to the tuner.

[Defosforus]

Dear Sir,

I hope you will restore the piano with an expert that knows how to restore such a historical instrument,
put on modern strings and the piano will crack, put new soundboard and the piano will loose its soul, ...
Probably it has been restored already or will be in the near future, if the first is the case you can find the year of construction on the mechanic (last or first key side) your piano should be from 1850.
Could you send me more pictures please ?
Also the person who has that number 7280 I am collecting data (serial numbers and photos) on erards, pleyels ,..

Kind regards, Wim Van Moerbeke - pianofortist

[Bill Kibby]

You can find dates of Erard London numbers about two-thirds of the way down my page at
http://pianogen.org/numbers.html

I would be grateful for any additions or corrections of these. As for the restoration and authenticity, I am guessing you know more than I do, but new wire does not necessarily damage the piano, or "crack" it, it depends on the tension, and therefore the gauges used.

Restringing, or replacing a soundboard on such an old piano will almost certainly cost more than the piano is worth, so it becomes a labour of love.

Have you seen
http://archivesmusee.citedelamusique.fr/archives.html