Used piano suitable for beginner

[Hansel]

Hi all

I have two daughters aged 10 and 7 who are currently having lessons. The eldest has just done her ABRSM grade 1 and the younger one her prep test. Both are currently practising on an unweighted keyboard and I am looking to buy an acoustic piano ASAP. I should add that I am also teaching myself and that I am at a similar level to my eldest daughter.

I had intended to buy new but have seen the following used piano advertised locally and would appreciate any advice re if this is a suitable instrument for my daughters and if the price is reasonable (providing the piano is in good order).

The advertisment reads

Kawai upright piano, 10 months old. Beautiful polished mahogany, sounds amazing, complete with stool. All reciepts available, cost £2995.00 will sell for £1,500 Please call

I have spoken to the vendor via telephone and she says that it is a Kawai KX 15 which she bought on a whim intending to learn but never got round to it. Apparently it was last tuned last May.

I cannot find out much about this model on-line as it appears to have now been discontinued althought Reidys in Blackburn (where I bought my keyboard incidently) are advertising it new for £2285

http://www.reidys.com/br/keyboards_and_ ... os/kawai/r

I would also like to ask if anyone knows if the manufacturer's warranty would be transferable to another owner

Any advice appreciated. Regards

[mdw]

Im pretty sure the guarantee doesnt carry on when its 2nd hand. I know Kembles dont. But then thats why you are getting it for £1500, so you are quids in. If you want it risk free buy new. Unless the PO has baked it infront of a radiator I doubt you will have any problems. The KX15 isnt the greatest piano in the world but its a long way from being the worst. Run it for a few years and once you know what you like tone and touch wise chop it in for a much taller upright. If you look after it you should get a fair chunk of that back in px or all of it if you find a private buyer.

[NewAge]

This Kawai KX15 seems to be a reasonable deal if it is really only 10 months old. And yes , the manufacturers warranty is transferable, one of the advantages of buying a Kawai.
This piano I believe is made in China, and although a 114cms/44in model, should have a reasonable sound and very suitable as a first piano for beginners.
You say you wanted to buy new. If that is the case, I suggest you look closely at the Kawai K2, a better model, now assembled in Indonesia.
Play as many pianos as possible to get an idea how they do vary. Good luck.

[Colin Nicholson]

Hansel.....

I have tuned & played many K15's and they are fine for a beginner. The bass end is a little 'wooly' in sound quality. As I also teach piano, the most important thing your daughters will eventually learn is how to use and develop the right hand pedal - the 'sustain' or 'legato' pedal. There is no digital or electronic device that can copy the sustaining power of an acoustic piano. Many pupils struggle when they come to me and we have a 'pedalling lesson' The Prep test is of course a non pass or fail, just an intro into the graded exams. Grade 1 is the first one, and many don't attempt the pedalling on one of the B pieces (2011-2012) (A story from Long Ago - I think) or use the pedal correctly. When your daughters develop their 'touch' and control the sound/dynamics on a proper piano, you will see the marks shoot up in exams - this is why so many just 'scrape' a pass (average being 115 out of 150) when learning on a 'toy' instrument, then playing on an acoustic piano in the exam room, being scrutinised - and their touch is usually too light, and little projection in their melody playing. Pupils also get the chance to learn the whole spectrum of the keyboard, and this prevents them from even starting at the "wrong octave" during exams - seen it happen so many times!

From around Grade 2-3 standard, some of the exam pieces incorporate 'inner melodies' and again, balanced with legato & sustain pedal. Your children are just at the right age to progress and do well - so hope they progress well.

I hope that helps....

[sussexpianos]

The KX15 was discontinued a long time ago( i stopped selling these 2 years ago!) but I guess they had some in stock to get rid off. The action is the abs type and it is OK. The next one up will be the K15-E RRP £3k new. Its a good buy.

[NewAge]

Hansel.....

I have tuned & played many K15's and they are fine for a beginner. The bass end is a little 'wooly' in sound quality. As I also teach piano, the most important thing your daughters will eventually learn is how to use and develop the right hand pedal - the 'sustain' or 'legato' pedal. There is no digital or electronic device that can copy the sustaining power of an acoustic piano. Many pupils struggle when they come to me and we have a 'pedalling lesson' The Prep test is of course a non pass or fail, just an intro into the graded exams. Grade 1 is the first one, and many don't attempt the pedalling on one of the B pieces (2011-2012) (A story from Long Ago - I think) or use the pedal correctly. When your daughters develop their 'touch' and control the sound/dynamics on a proper piano, you will see the marks shoot up in exams - this is why so many just 'scrape' a pass (average being 115 out of 150) when learning on a 'toy' instrument, then playing on an acoustic piano in the exam room, being scrutinised - and their touch is usually too light, and little projection in their melody playing. Pupils also get the chance to learn the whole spectrum of the keyboard, and this prevents them from even starting at the "wrong octave" during exams - seen it happen so many times!

From around Grade 2-3 standard, some of the exam pieces incorporate 'inner melodies' and again, balanced with legato & sustain pedal. Your children are just at the right age to progress and do well - so hope they progress well.

I hope that helps....

Colin,
You're right. Using the sustain pedal correctly is an art in itself. As a young kid in the 50's I had lessons for 4 years and the sustain pedal was never even mentioned. Same teacher 9 years with a family member who became very proficient, although she can't recall any pedal tuition per se during the lessons.
I hope it's different today.

[Colin Nicholson]

WEll, I can't speak for other piano teachers, but I myself start them off with a single finger - note scale & pedal. From around the age of 10-11 (but have taught them earlier), when they can reach the pedal - I show them the K A T technique - Knee - Ankle - Thigh, having small amounts of movement from each leg & foot joint (so they dont just pump the pedal!!) - then of course, pedalling 'between' notes to achieve legato pedalling. Again, I don't think there any special books to show you - except Beethoven just mentioning to use 'legato pedal' in some of his sonatas.... so I have devised around 10-page of notes/ tunes & exercises on pedalling. Some of my pupils 'pedal' quite naturally - some though are bit 'smudgy' and gaps between certain notes.... I also have an 8 yr old pupil entering in for the Harrogate music festival on 5th March, he is grade 2 standard - and his pedalling is so good.... could be my notes that helped him? I myself didn't get any 'real' proper training pf the pedal in my early days, until Denis Matthews changed everything - and said that my pedalling was "appauling"!!

[Hansel]

Many thanks for all the really good advice offered from forum members.

I have decided not to pursue the purchase of this particular piano in the end for a number of reasons but primarily because:

1) I think I need to try a range of pianos from good to bad to so that I can start to get a feeling of what the differences are between pianos, even those of the same model. I think that buying the first piano that comes along may lead to regrets further down the line.

2) MDW made a point about checking for location next to a radiator which made me think about where the piano was going in my own home. I have realised that I will need to move a radiator which is directly adjacent to where I had intended to put the new piano. It makes sense to sort out the room before looking more seriously which I will try to do ASAP.

Hope I haven't missed out on a bargain

Regards and thanks again.