Steinway grand 1877, english & scottish history search

[BerndAB]

Hello to all,

beginning this year I had the gorgeous chance to buy a super old concert grand from Steinway.Great instrument. It left the Steinway factory in Manhattan in Sept 1877 and was shipped to London via Liverpool.

In January 1878 a Mr. Stubbs bought the piano. (There once was a Reverend Stubbs for the Church of England who later became the fourth Bishop of Truro, Cornwall but I am not sure that he was the first buyer, maybe a brother , a cousin, another relative or a completely different Mr. Stubbs..?..).

In 1910 a Lady Vincent bought the piano and kept it until 1920. Am I right that according to the rules of the british high families there always is only One Lady Vincent at One time?

1920 the piano came back to Steinwall Hall London and presumably was "modernized" a little bit. (Or modernization took place later..) Victorian ice cone legs replaced against square legs etc. The piano looks nearly like an actual "D" model but it is 133 yrs old.

In 1920 the piano was sold to a Mr. Gibbs, Glasgow. I found out that there once was a music store in Glasgow named Gibbs but I am not sure.

At any time near 2009 a born scotsman bought the piano, brought it to Germany and did some rebuilding work. New painting silk black, new felts, new hammers, new strings.

I assume that the piano might have been defective for several years before, maybe. I would like to know everything about the piano, prerfereable a contact to the last owner in Scotland.. The scotsman who sold the piano to me was not very informative.. <shy>.. Any Ideas how and where to look for the former owners?

Kind regards from Germany
and pls excuse any bad english in my posting as I am german.

Bernd


(edit: typing error)

[Colin Nicholson]

I don't think there is any way in finding out previous 'gaps' in ownership on a piano, unless you have been told by someone, or it is in writing. There is no "blue book" on individual pianos, and as you refer to "the piano" each time, around 1877, approx. 35,000 Steinways were manufactured - grands & uprights. Even if the serial number is known, this doesn't put anyone in touch with previous owners - information like this is not kept. The piano sounds as though it has had a fascinating life - but even in the "Steinway Book" itself by Ratcliffe, only certain references are made to pianos made for Royalty & special occasions, those with fancy carvings, gilding, and various paintings on them, and only general history is known....

Hence the last owner of Scotland "was not very informative" ?...... he probably doesn't even know himself, and would be afraid to admit it.

[BerndAB]

Thank you for your answer. Yes, it is only a little chance to dig out the former history. But I will try.. I think that this instrument is something "special" in several aspects, and this may have had the attention of former music specialists, tuners, instruments dealers etc.:

1- It is a concert grand. If it was institutionally used, then it probably got regular tuning maybe two or four times a year, and it may be written in any lists of assets, maybe churches, maybe concert halls, maybe music stores.. ..

2- If it was owned and used privately, then it may have caused some attention because of the size: in private rooms it looks VERY DOMINANT.. A big fat black lucky dragon watching the living room..

3- It is a special Steinway grand: it is the ever first version of the concert grand technic like they build it - with only little modification - since these years. The actual model D was introduced in 1884, and my piano is the direct precedessor, design patented 1875. It is the ever first concert grand type with the full "Cupola" plate which covers also the pinblock. Big difference is that the "D" type has the glued "rim" housing, but mine has a housing with the "S" plank built like a switzerland ski, the wood of the "S" contour formed by the means of steam.

Two instruments of this very type were on the world exposition in Philadelphia in 1876 (to celebrate the 100th anniversary of the US constitution) and there won the Gold Medal. ... Which caused a "piano war" in the USA as some competitors fought against this decision..

Of this very type only 424 instruments ever were produced, 1875 to 1884, and in some "insider" circles the name of this piano type may sound like thunder: "Centennial D". The book of Perry Knize "Grand obsession - A Piano odyssey" tells about this. Mine is no "real" D as the letters were introduced one year later 1878, it is one of the last "style 4" grands. Common naming is said as "D-270" to differentiate it from the actual "D-274".

You are right; the serial no. of the grand is in the early 35.000.

Maybe that anybody in the Glasgow region has an idea whom I could ask or where to go for a search.

[Bill Kibby]

Would I be right in assuming that most of this information came from Steinways' archives? As Colin says, you are very lucky to have obtained as much information as you have, most piano owners have no way of finding out that much about an individual piano. Most makers' archives have been lost, or are locked away from public view. There are many frustrating areas of piano history which cannot be solved at all by active research, that is why the Piano History Centre exists, to preserve any information that arrives at random, and file it logically so that it is of maximum value to people who enquire. Sadly, we are still without any form of official funding or major sponsorship, and depend on donations.

[Gill the Piano]

There's just a chance that if you contact Jeff Shackell of Shackell Pianos,Witney, Oxfordshire, that he might have a faint idea - he has a very wide knowledge of Steinways.

[BerndAB]

Yes, Bill, you are right.

Most info came from Steinway, first from Hamburg factory office where a very helpful young lady works in sales assistance etc., then after she contacted Steinway Hall London, infos from over there.

Thank you all for your input. The search will go on. In the next days I will write emails to some contacts. & My next summer vacation seems to be on your nice island.

Kind regards

Bernd A. B.