Metzler & Co, London

[rosslynrose]

Hi, I am new here and this is my first post

I have just purchased very cheaply a beautiful piano created by Metzler & Co, London

I would love to know more about the new member of my family.

All I can tell is the make and that it's a stunning walnut veneer with real (and damaged ) ivory and ebony keys.

The only identifying marks is under the folding music stand under the lid where the gilt writing of Metzler & Co, London.

Under the top lid on the edge of the casing are punched numbers - 9853 and inside the case and on the frame are numbers (printed) 1607. These are the only identifiers. Taking the front cover away, there are many pencillings of dates and signatures, mainly by tuners, the earliest of these is dated April 1896. I would so like to know more about my new piano

Here are a few photos

piano.zip

(360.64 KiB) Downloaded 1278 times

[Colin Nicholson]

Alot of these pianos may be problematic, and you may find your tuner will have difficulty tuning it (looking at the condition of the bass strings) - yes, very old, over-strung and pre- 1900. The number #1607 is the serial number, so this was the 1,607 piano made - that's what that number means, the other number 9853 is a cabinet number, there are never any records of the cabinet number, and there doesn't seem to be any serial numbers stated either in the book.

Depending on how many ivories are damaged, replacing the heads may look very patchy, and matching the grain/colour is tricky, so plastic key top is an option, to have them replaced. There is nothing unusual about pianos with chipped ivories - seen loads of them, and ivory is not just unique to this piano.

Looks like this piano could have been exported from Germany (by the carvings), and then distributed in the UK.

However a nice piece of furniture, but whether it will fully function as a piano, you'll have to book a piano tuner to check it over.

Things we like to see you have not shown, like the tuning dates, signatures, and the mechanism may give further clues.

[rosslynrose]

Hi Colin
Thanks for the great information there.

The piano actually plays beautifully. To my ear, the tuning isn't that much out.

However, it does need some TLC. It needs new felts on the hammers as they are a little tatty and a good clean inside.
All key hit a note, about 5 are not as clear as they could be, but I'm hoping the tuner can help here. The wires are no rusty and some only have a set of 2 strings while others have sets of 3 strings. There are about 5 empty pegs, but I don't know if this is normal and these keys were never supposed to have strings.

With the ivories, I can pick up 32 of them (thats the amount chipped) for $6 each from the USA, but matching will be an issue. Again, I will check with the tuner, I know some of them keep the undamaged tops from other jobs where there has been a complete key replacement. I would love to bring this back to it's original glory. The other option may be to file the keys down flush,

The back of the piano is not boarded, but it's a hessian cloth.

I will take more photo's tomorrow of the signatures that are pencilled on the wooden frame. I am hoping too, to have a closer look at the iron frame to see if there are any marks. I will also take the fronts and the lid off to give a good photo of the mechanism.
What I loved about it, is inside the removable front are numbers where the craftsmen pencilled the parts in 1,2,3,4 etc, and the roughness of the nails that are holding it all together.

What I am thrilled about is that this is possibly the 1607th piano to be created and not the 9853rd as I initially thought.

[Colin Nicholson]

There should be no "empty pegs" (as you put it). These are the tuning pins, made from tungsten, each one having a small hole drilled through it to start the coiling of the piano wire. There may still be the broken coils still attached to pins, or the broken strings may be neatly coiled up and stored in the bottom of the piano, inside, near the pedal mechanism - have a look!

The strings - starting from the left are the thick heavy bass strings, usually around 10 single strings; then the bass strings change into pairs (bi-chords) - around 15 - 20 notes, and they stop around F, below middle C. When the strings change direction (from left to right at an angle), sometimes there are a couple of bass bi-chords, if not, the steel treble strings take over - these are grouped into three per note - right up to the last top note. So, if some of these only have 2 strings, some of them have broken. Also, if you carefully lift back the damper (small piece of square felt resting on the strings to mute the sound), you may see the grooves made by the strings, and the groove for any missing strings.

Replacing hammer felt is quite expensive, so be prepared for a shock - and sit down when your piano tuner quotes you a price - maybe best to have them re-faced if there is enough felt on them. If the parts on the mechanism are numbered in pencil from 1 - 85, then at some stage in the piano's life, parts have been removed to be repaired - as they must go back in exactly the same order. They keys however sometimes have their own numbers on them, each number punched into the wood.

I don't want to sound daunting, but you may have serious issues here regarding whether the piano can be tuned again - due to broken strings, more may break, and with the hammer felt worn away - hopefully "fingers crossed" !!

[rosslynrose]

Hi Pianolove. So nice of you to comment on my piano, it is a stunning item, the grain of the walnut veneer is so beautiful, next to old yew and elm, it is the most beautiful of wood and rarely seen in modern pianos.

Thanks again for your comprehensive reply Colin. I am dreading seeing the tuner now next Friday. The previous owners took care of the piano for the last 40 years and they only had it tuned about a dozen times in that time, but it doesn't sound that bad. They said that it was in a back room where there was no real heat, so that probably goes to say that it was that reason that kept it in tune. I need to clean the bottom of it, it's full of spider carcasses and dust. I also need to polish the wood. I have a beeswax spray that does not include silicon. I have been told that this should be ok, but I'm not so sure. I'm also not sure that wood wax is the way to go because it's a polished or varnished veneer.

I have taken some photo's of the inside of the piano. They aren't the best as the flash over processed the photos and without it, they were just too dark. I am not confident on taking out the end keys to see if there is anything written on these, so I will wait until the tuner comes. I have also included the pencillings on the wooden framework.

metzler.zip

(849.42 KiB) Downloaded 795 times

[Colin Nicholson]

Thanks for the photos - though some of them are out of focus & 'juddery' ! - so can't comment on some of them.

The movement is German, - under-damped tape mechanism, then the piano would have been shipped to the UK for resale. Nice to see the tuning dates so regular, but they stop at 1942, so could have been to do with WW2?

The cast frame is 3/4 size (not full iron frame), so tuning may not be very stable. The wrest plank is protected with tin/brass plate where the tuning pins are, but this tin plate does not fully protect the wrest plank, and mostly for show.

There also seems to be considerable insect damage, especially around the damper heads - note the red backing felt is eaten away. Sometimes these blighters eat the glue aswell, and bits drop off. I also can see vaguely a insect trail on the purple hammer rest rail baize, nothing major here, but it tells everyone your piano has been invaded elsewhere.
Do any notes 'click' when you release the key? if so, the tiny square cuts of cushion that sit behind the jacks may be munched away. Bridle tapes & general action materials are obviously in poor condition due to its age.

Picture 4125 - definitely "a string" missing. To you, it will look like 2 strings are missing, but when one string breaks, it is looped to its neighbour, so each string is looped to form 2 strings - when you take the action out, notice how they are looped around the hitch pins at the bottom of the cast frame.

I would recommend that your tuner pre-oils the coils first on the strings before tuning, and where the bass strings suddenly change direction at the top - steered around an upper plate pin, this is where they break if not been tuned for decades. The bass strings look in - tact, and the treble wire is easy enough to replace, but it may have damaged the hammer felt, thus reducing the surface area for the hammer to strike all three strings...... like hitting cheese wire at the moment!

I'll say a little prayer for you, and hope the tuner doesn't faint! I would forget new hammer felts - the cost of anything like that would seriously be uneconomical considering the age and condition of this piano, and hammer heads alone would probably be worth over 10 times what you initially paid for the piano. However, beeswax is fine to use - anything cosmetic is nice to do to a piano, but the general conditon of the strings, tuning pins and mechanism may be an issue.

Our Father..........

[rosslynrose]

Hi again

The piano tuner came to view the piano, and he said to me that when he first walked in he groaned inwardly when he saw it as normally piano's of this age that haven't been tuned for a long time are dreadful and he's written off more than he has been able to sort out. But when he opened the top he was really surprised. He said that in the 25 years he has been tuning, repairing and restoring piano's he's never come across one like it. He commented on the fact that if he put a photo of the inside on the web and sent it to the others that he deals with (not sure who they are, but I'm assuming other tuners) that they wouldn't be able to guess that the piano was of such an age. We took the first 3 keys and the last 3 keys out to see if there was any names or writing, but there was nothing.

He has taken the whole section that contains the hammers away and he is going to replace all the leather tags and do some other things now that I cannot remember including tidying the hammer felts. It's been well played in it's life which he said is a better thing than not playing it. The work on replacing the leather tags and restoring the hammer felts then when put back in the piano, regulating and tuning. He's going to charge £395 for that, then there is replacing a couple of strings and skimming down the ivories flush instead of replacing and cleaning to bring back the natural colouring. The inside is going to get a good clean and to finish off, maybe another tuning if needed. The whole thing shouldn't cost more that £500 to bring it back to pristine.

He doesn't seem to think that there is going to be any problems in tuning, the coils are mostly ok, a couple he's going to readjust as whoever replaced a handful of strings in the past didn't do a very good job of it, a couple of strings aren't secure in the hole of the peg, he showed me how eventhough 6 strings were missing, they were infact only 3 strings missing as the strings were looped at the bottom and up to another peg. All he kept saying was how much he really liked this piano and the sound. It had been really looked after well and was an extremely good buy.

It was very interesting learning about my piano and how things worked.

[Colin Nicholson]

Well done!! thats good news.

I did explain about the strings being looped previously, so it turns out not to be as bad as it looks.
The leather tips are called "bridle tapes" and a fundamental part of the movement. The whole section taken away is called the "action" The hammers will be "refaced" and your tuner may replace the hammer butt leathers if included in the quote. Just as well you got the strings & tuning pins checked out, could be dangerous if not secured properly.

The price is fair for the jobs, though may not be economical in terms for the value of the piano (if you know what I mean) - but I'm pleased your tuner has out-ruled dodgy tuning pins!

Let us know how the final installation/regulating & tuning goes.

I didn't say the full prayer! just the first 2 words!

Nice 1

[Bill Kibby]

Although serial numbers should, theoretically, represent the number of pianos made up to that time, it isn't always the case, as you can read on my Numbers page at pianogen.org

Coming back to your original enquiry, can you give me the complete, exact wording that appears on the piano? Is it only about Metzler, London or does it mention Metzler,Germany?

The chipped ivories look like the sort of damage that happes when a parrot (or perhaps even a budgie) gets in the habit of sitting on the keys, and sharpening his beak.

[rosslynrose]

Hi Bill, thanks for that information

The exact wording is "Metzler & Co London".
Something has definitely attacked the keys, it would never have such little nibbles from basic wear and tear. The keytops themselves are in lovely condition with just the ends chipped, so your parrot example makes total sense. Or some destructive little oaf did it on purpose.

In relation to the repairs
My piano tuners replaced the action yesterday and took about an hour or so to regulate and tune it. He said that in all his years, he's never come across one like mine. He says that its a very old piano but it is a dream to tune. He absolutely loves it.

The piano is a thing of beauty and that beautiful carving at the front is stunning. Both brass side "handles" are perfect too. It has the most incredible sound. When it's being played, it sounds as if you are in a concert hall. The inner acoustics are incredible. I have had modern piano's and they just don't compare. I think I have come across a real gem here with this one. I will be replacing the couple of strings that need doing and shaving the keys so that they are flush, but I have a beautiful piece of furniture that will be played every day.

[wj2131039]

Depending on how many ivories are damaged, replacing the heads may look very patchy, and matching the grain/colour is tricky, so plastic key top is an option, to have them replaced. There is nothing unusual about pianos with chipped ivories - seen loads of them, and ivory is not just unique to this piano.

[Colin Nicholson]

In cases where the 'odd' or single ivory head has been chipped, a good repair can be done by finding a spare ivory head (or tail), grinding it all down to dust, then mixing a small portion of the ivory dust with a clear bonding glue - such as superglue (or seriously strong glue by evo-stick). The repair is quite effective, but not sure how it would look for multiple chipped keys..... but the glue must dry completely clear - so wood glue not very good as it dries opaque.

Just a suggestion!