Rebuilding 1925-1939 Bluthner

[nickthorp]

I'm a private buyer hoping to purchase a Bluthner grand with roller action and lattice frame from this period and have it rebuilt. I'd be very grateful for any comments on the rather different approaches and results as exemplified the work of Barry Caradine, Colin Leverett and Geoffrey Sapsford / Richard Dain, particularly with regard to restoring to the original sound as opposed to improving it, baking, shimming and re-crowning or replacement of the soundboard (with a new Bluthner board or even new carbon fibre type), refurbished original / new action, etc. I'm looking for opinions or experiences as independent of commercial interests as possible.

[joseph]

I feel that if you're going to have the Bluthner rebuilt, go for any year. The 1890-1920 instruments are very good and Colin Leverett would bring out the best in these pianos. The most satisfying musical result in this case would be to have the action, soundboard, and tuning plank replaced. I've seen Colin's pianos and I can hand on heart say that he restores the original tone of these instruments. He can do the same work to a 1930s Bluthner too, although I personally find the pre-WW1 instruments are superior. I don't actually know why though, so perhaps someone in the know could comment?

However, having a piano restored to this degree comes at a price. It's not as expensive as buying a new grand piano, but I think you'd be looking at £12K. The instrument at the end of it would be a new version of what it was, as opposed to a modern piano, and you would love it, providing that's what you are looking for.

I don't think a carbon fibre soundboard would restore the original Bluthner sound, although it may provide a good result.

[nickthorp]

Thanks very much indeed for your comments, Joseph. I had been thinking of the 1925-39 period because of the roller action (and from a relatively trivial stylistic viewpoint the lattice frame and tapered square legs, although I know the latter can be replaced). However, there do seem to be a number of people who maintain the pre-WW1 models sound even better.

I certainly would not want any loss of the characteristic bell-like / singing sound of the Bluthner that may be caused by a radical change of soundboard (eg to carbon fibre). Clearly I'll have to listen to the different rebuilt solutions myself eventually, but hope to get a direction from others' experiences at this early stage. Living in Cornwall makes things rather awkward.

[joseph]

HI Nick,

Did I mention that Colin Leverett can install a roller action onto a piano that originally had a patent action? It's a fairly common part of the rebuilding process I think, although there are those who prefer the original action. This change has no effect on the actual tone of the instrument, but it of course changes the response of the instrument. Personally I prefer the modern action.

I don't think that the lattice work frame pianos are necessarily better than the round hole framed pianos. Perhaps they let a bit more sound through and are marginally lighter (in weight I mean).

There are many fine examples of both types of instrument. It very much comes down to the original piano and what you want from it. Just out of interest, why do you want a rebuilt Bluthner so much? I know that they can be very nice pianos, some in particular can be very special. I just ask because for the kind of money that you would spend on this, there are many other fine pianos available. Not trying to put you off, I'm just curious what it is about the Bluthner that you love so much.

[nickthorp]

Hello again Joseph

Thanks once again for your thoughts. I had heard of the practice of replacing the simplex action with a new roller one, but assumed this would push the cost beyond my budget. I'm aware that particular examples of any piano can vary in sound, but it's clearly difficult to judge in advance what the final restored/rebuilt result will be.

It's hard to quantify what I like about Bluthner - boils down to the "singing" tone really. It sounds like you may possibly think I could do better with another make. I have to bear in mind that unless I can persuade the removals company to get the piano upstairs, I'm limited by a very small room (17' x 12'), so, for instance, a Steinway could be too loud (and it sounds like their restoration can be expensive and problematic), or Boesendorder possibly overwelming in the bass. Do you have something particular in mind?

[chrisvenables]

Nick - a risk you take in buying a second hand piano and then paying to have it comprehensively restored is that you don't know how it will sound and feel until the work is done.

Colin does very good work indeed, but I would recommend buying a piano that has already had the work done. Put yourself on his books and other quality rebuilders so they can contact you when they have something ready for you to try.

[nickthorp]

Thank you very much Chris. Your comment is a timely reminder of the need to take account of this problem. I'm already down on the books of Colin Leverett and Barry Caradine, but not so sure at this stage about Richard Dain / Geoff. Sapsford's approach of using carbon fibre replacements.

[mdw]

The other problem to look out for is you can have a fantastic rebuild but the piano will still be stuck together with animal glue and ive lost count of the number of old pianos ive seen with glue joints in casework coming undone, expensive rebuild or not.

[nickthorp]

Thanks very much for the warning, md. I don't tend to use central heating at high levels, but it's an important point to bear in mind.

[joseph]

On your budget, I'd seriously consider a well-prepped Brodmann piano, new. I use one for all my practice. It has a good and responsive even touch, singing tone and good tuning stability. It maybe doesn't have the alure of a 1930s Bluthner, but I think in the long run you will be happy with it. They're pretty much trouble free.

If you DO want a Bluthner, go for one already rebuilt. Colin Leverrett will source a good one for you and again you wont be disappointed. I have no idea how much it will cost but Chris Venables is now the Brodmann dealer.

[nickthorp]

Thanks for that, Joseph. I think I probably am obsessed with the idea of a Bluthner by now, but will also do some research on your suggestion of a new Brodmann. Colin Leverett knows I'm on the hunt, but I'll add in the idea of an already rebuilt example next time I talk to him.

All the best

Nick

[david g]

Nickthorp, I commend your idea of acquiring a restored Bluthner. Might I suggest that you visit Bluthner Pianos in Berkeley Square. They usually have a number of instruments which have been restored by Colin Leverett, in which the patent actions have been replaced. This would give you an opportunity to see what such pianos are like. When I was last at Bluthners (in January), they had a particularly fine restored piano, number 90763. This is a 6'3" instrument with aliquot strings. Yuki Negishi played a Chopin Nocturne on it, and the tone was simply fabulous. A real treat to listen to. Not cheap, though!

[nickthorp]

Thanks, David. I do have in mind a visit to Bluthner, London, especially if I can't find one of Colin's rebuilds to listen to close to home (Cornwall), though as you say their price levels take some reaching!

[joseph]

Ah dear Yuki. Hard working girl she is. Good player. Send her a wave from me if you see her anytime soon.