J B Cramer - Found date on key

[mbrosnan]

Hi Bill,

Re J. B Cramer & Co., Liverpool Upright Piano

Just following on from my other recent post, I Investigated further (thanks Bill for your instructions as to how to look at keys), and found a hand written name and date on the 1st key of the piano, just on the side of the key (i.e the key to the far right, not sure if this is top or bottom - as explained in your notes on dates). The name and date is written in pencil, and in old fashioned jointed up writing - it says something like "Toby Maughan 1st June, 1911". The date is very clear but the name looks like I have described, but not as clear as the date.

Would this be in line with some of your findings as regards datings on pianos? It looks kinda genuine to me. The writing is old fashioned the same as my grandfathers writing. Also when I lifted up the small board, which is over the keys (not the lid) a piece of paper had been inserted, (presumably to even up the height to stop it rocking or moving), and it was from a very old fashioned type of document.

In your last post, on J B Cramer and Liverpool, you stated that the London company had given you a copy of an old catalogue. Did that verify that there was a link between the London Cramer and the Liverpool one? Its funny that the names are the same, just the location different. The name plate on the piano is very fancy, in brass - not just a stamp so it would appear to be a company in its own right.

Thanks for help.

Maedhbh

[Bill Kibby]

It could be a tuner's mark, but it may well be the key maker's mark to say when the keys were completed, some months before the piano was completed. As I said, Cramers were unaware of the Liverpool branch, but we have definite records of the connection between them. The number certainly doesn't line up with the published dates of Cramer numbers around 1911, so it's useful to have that piece of information, thanks.

[julesgti]

HI There,
I've literally just joined and found this link/post about J B Cramer.

We have had a piano for a number of years and I was wondering how I can find out about the pianos history.

Hense why I'm here.

On the piano there is J B Cramer & Co. London written on the underside of the key lid. Also on the right hand side is "The Orchestrelle Co, Aeolian Hall, 135/7 New Bond St. W.

How can I find some history.

We believe the piano is a "Labourers" piano as it is smaller than normal (128cm)

Can you please help.

Regards,

Jules
07990586980

[Bill Kibby]

I have no idea what you mean by a "labourer's piano". One of the names will be the maker, the other may be the retailer. I'm guessing this is a Cramer piano, either sold by Orchestrelle, or having an Aeolian / Orchetrelle Pianola unit inside to play music from rolls. Without dates or serial numbers, all I can suggest is that you look at

http://www.uk-piano.org/piano-gen/datem ... ianos.html

[julesgti]

Many thnaks for that. It may have been a novice selling the piano, just calling it a "labourer's piano" beacuse it is small without really understanding what it is.

Do you have a rough idea of where the Serial numbers etc are on these Pianos?

Regards,

jules

[Bill Kibby]

I can only suggest that you look inside the top, and around the top edges. Serial numbers can be almost anywhere, and a repeated number is always a safer bet, or one confirmed by th last 3 digits being used on removable parts.