age of Collard & Collard Pianino

[tanya75428]

I am trying to figure out the age of my piano. I've found 2 numbers on it. Top left of the frame has 8832 in the wood. 25 is on a piece in the top left corner and on the wood under the keys, behind the door.
I don't know which is the serial number.
It says 'metal frame pianino' on it and 'methven simpson co" also, it had candleabras on it.
If anyone knows any info about it, or how I can get info, that would be great.
Thanks, Tanya

[Pianomate]

Serial 8832 is somewhere between 1825 and 1830 (Bill will know more I expect), but that number may not be the serial number. Do you have any photos?

If you know how to remove the keys, have a look at the extreme left key as often serial numbers and dates are written on the sides.

[Bill Kibby]

I must plead with Pianomate never to quote those published dates again, please read my Numbers page at

http://www.uk-piano.org/piano-gen/piano ... mbers.html

The published dates for early Collards are absolute rubbish. No Collard piano is that early, they are all after 1830, and would not have a "metal frame" until much later. Clementi retired in 1831, and in the very same year "Collard & Collard" were advertising themselves. 25 is not a serial number, it's a model. Even the later numbers are difficult, and sometimes turn out to be about a tenth of the published ones, so do examine the keys for datemarks. If you can email photos of the whole piano to me, I may be able to estimate the date. Methven, Simpson & Co. was formed in 1866 when Simpson became a partner with Methven's trustees.

[tanya75428]

Thank you both for your help. Bill, I emailed you just now. The left key has numbers all over it in pencil. I don't know what I'm looking for. Here is the piano.

[tanya75428]

Here's the inside of it.

[Bill Kibby]

As I said in my email, I estimate it at 1901, so there should be a number around 160,000 somewhere.

[stewart]

Could anyone help me? I have a collard & collard London piano serial number 171698 i was just wondering how old it is and from the pictures could anyone tell me what sort of wood it is? Also on the right hand side it says established 1829 Townsend & Thomson 79 George st Edinburgh.

[Bill Kibby]

The number suggests that it was made in 1907, and you may find a date under the keys of the bottom notes. The 1829 date refers to Townsend & Thomson, retailers. There would be a number of different timbers used, and the polish would have been much darker, with some faking of grains to make it all match.

[Colin Nicholson]

Stewart,

The wood veneer looks like mahogany or ''oak-stained-mahogany'', but it would need to be examined closely on-site to confirm this. In the early 1900's, pianos like this were often veneered, stained and French Polished in a variety of wood colours to make them look nice - also Rosewood & Cherrywood was popular in this period. The centre panelling was often either a different veneer or a different shade to contrast the rest of the piano to make it look more appealing. With exception to the beading trims, music rest, possibly the keyblocks - the whole piano will be veneered over a carcass timber. Also if the wood is faded, it is sometimes difficult to detect the veneer type & grain unless its stripped down to the bare wood. Also - French Polish has a staining agency in it, to give it a more 'golden' look (button polish).

The piano above yours (with the mechanism removed) - looks similar to a Jacobean Oak stain veneer - applied to a standard oak veneer. It is also layered with some brush marks (in black) to simulate a heavy & ''argueably'' attractive wood grain.

Many people are often lured by the colours of wood, and assume it is of a 'richer' veneer - like Rosewood, however, the grain of the wood and medulla rays often tell you the veneer type - which is only about 1.8mm in thickness.

Hope that helps...

[stewart]

Thanks very much.