ESTONIA PIANOS ?

[piano heads]

In piano shop the other day could hardly believe my eyes at the ESTONIA PRICE TAG,remember seeing a 15 year old concert grand of theirs and it could not even meet its £300 reserve in auction,it was shocking and the new one not a lot better £14,000rrp is someone rippimg the ....

[D.J.Smith]

A new Estonia in a UK shop? Where was this, and which model was it? I'm suprised you didn't like it ; I'm very happy with mine, and so is my tuner.

[joseph]

I can refer to an earlier post I made about rebuilding pianos. Artur Pizarro has an Estonia concert grand that was rebuilt by Colin Leverett's firm, and it is one of the finest sounding pianos I have played or heard. I played it pre rebuilding and it was OK, but not wonderful. This was an older communist era Estonia.

The Leveretts installed a new soundboard and tuning plank, as well as rebuilding the action, and of course re stringing. You could expect to pay well over your £14000 price tag for a piano of this quality. Absolutely beautiful it is!

[NewAge]

I'm surprised at the original poster's comments.
Owners of Estonia on the other piano forum 'across the pond' highly rate these pianos - especially the new grands. In fact most think they are the dog's dangly bits.......
I've been wanting to try one for some time (the piano, not the dangly bits) but not seen one so far.

[Kemble King]

Estonia is a quality product and they have done very well in re-inventing themselves since 1992.

The person who started this thread may just be a dealer who probably cant get hold of quality makers like Estonia, Brodmann and such like. You often find they just prefer to slate them instead to try and put people of buying them. Maybe he should remember that quality pianos sell themself!!

[piano heads]

This forum is been used to promote insrtuments and dealers self interests,as you have shown in earlier threads,happy trading,the public can buy any piano they want directly from almost any supplier CASH IS KING,as to wanting to buy the 2 brands mentioned,there a better pianos around of better quality at keaner prices.Wont be posting anymore but been an intersting few days.

[vernon]

piano heads
you seem somewhat touchy.
Are you having business problems or simply supply problems?
The quality of pianos is a very subjective art as we all know. The customer who asks" what's the best piano here?" must be met with the response that it is the one they choose.
There is no point in knocking pianos you are not allowed to stock because of any track record you may have of discounting, should that be the case of course
Don't go away from the Forum because it does not support your prejudices, rather stay and make your point if you can.

[Openwood]

Wont be posting anymore

Oh well, every cloud has a silver lining. Perhaps he's found an anger management course that will take him.

[PianoGuy]

This forum is been used to promote insrtuments and dealers self interests,as you have shown in earlier threads,happy trading,the public can buy any piano they want directly from almost any supplier CASH IS KING,as to wanting to buy the 2 brands mentioned,there a better pianos around of better quality at keaner prices.Wont be posting anymore but been an intersting few days.

Cash is indeed king, but what that has to do with the value of Brodmann and Estonia I don't really know. As for the two brands mentioned they are actually *very* hard to beat for value, and prices are indeed "keane". The only brand that beats them on that score is Perzina, and at a pinch W&L.

[Psycho Pianoman]

Estonia pianos really are the mutt's dangly bits. We have a second hand 170 in stock and it is truly AMAZING. It's right that the Americans buy up most of their stock and no wonder. Catch one if you can!

[joe]

Estonia is a quality product and they have done very well in re-inventing themselves since 1992.

The person who started this thread may just be a dealer who probably cant get hold of quality makers like Estonia, Brodmann and such like. You often find they just prefer to slate them instead to try and put people of buying them. Maybe he should remember that quality pianos sell themself!!

God help the piano buying public in East and North-East Scotland if the dealer thinks these are good products at good prices,its little wonder so many buy down south,or are trying to trade them in known they have been had.

[Kemble King]

Joe by name Jo by nature!!

That only shows how little you really know about Estonia Pianos? But everyone is entitled to their own opinion even a " Weegie ". Check the American Forum and see for yourself how well respected the Estonia brand is so highly regarded.

Regards

Kemble King

[Barrie Heaton]

Joe by name Jo by nature!!

That only shows how little you really know about Estonia Pianos? But everyone is entitled to their own opinion even a " Weegie ". Check the American Forum and see for yourself how well respected the Estonia brand is so highly regarded.

Regards

Kemble King

Not seen one for a long time have been told that they have improved big time... But come on an endorsement from the yanks god these are the guys that thing Baldwin pianos are wonderful !

Barrie,

[joe]

30 years of knowledge from the best in the business,because it makes profit occasionally does not make it a good piano, complaints are common place with the brand we know are asked to repair the odd one from time to time.Baldwin,Kimball etc are awful but if they make you money suppose we should read Uncle Sams Journal and spend spend spend.How many Estonias have been sent back to Russia with love,split soundboards,hairline cracked wrestplanks,loose bridges and polyester case imperfections ask uncle Al he might know.

[Kemble King]

30 years of knowledge from the best in the business,because it makes profit occasionally does not make it a good piano, complaints are common place with the brand we know are asked to repair the odd one from time to time.Baldwin,Kimball etc are awful but if they make you money suppose we should read Uncle Sams Journal and spend spend spend.How many Estonias have been sent back to Russia with love,split soundboards,hairline cracked wrestplanks,loose bridges and polyester case imperfections ask uncle Al he might know.

'complaints are common place with the brand we know are asked to repair the odd one from time to time'

I'm not sure I quite understand. Is it 'common place' or 'the odd one from time to time'? Name one piano brand that doesn't 'from time to time' have problems. Steinway? Lets be realistic. Also being the 'best in the business' is a high expectation to live up to. Is he the Piano God? That aside, and being completely unbiased as we are NOT Estonia agents, they, in our opinion are an absolutely superb instrument and know many satisfied Estonia owners reading this will be neither shaken or stirred by your comments. Profit? NO! Profit and being able to sleep at night, YES!


KK

[schubert]

many satisfied Estonia owners reading this will be neither shaken or stirred by your comments. Profit? NO! Profit and being able to sleep at night, YES!

To those talking out of ignorance about Estonia Pianos I would say that presumably as often "what is unknown is also unbeloved"
Should you be interested you might start visiting the Estonia Piano website: http://www.estoniapiano.com/
Would you not find this information to be convincing you might register yourself to the Pianoworld Forums and contact the owners [no not the dealers] directly by sending them a PM, yes even if they are yanks.
If you are interested in an article describing the history of the Estronia Pianos and learn why it is not recommended buying one from the Soviet era but what makes the NEW Estonia Piano [post 1999] so intersting, please read:
http://www.france24.com/en/20090414-est ... s?pop=TRUE
If you have not seen one yet in the UK you might want to pay a visit to Besbrode Pianos in Leeds; they have a 190 in Bubinga since quite a while now. Not that I would qualify Besbrode as a real Estonia dealer [this is the only instrument they stock] as it is my impression from visting their website from time to time, they change brands as quickly as I change shirts.

To those who deliberately try to discredit Estonia Pianos but have never played one or seen one nearby, I would say don't make a fool of yourself on a public forum.

And yes I am a happy Estonia [168] owner. No, not a yank but from Belgium where I puchased mine in October 2008 and rest assured I am in no way related to the piano business.

It is indeed not easy to get hold of an Estonia piano in Europe as there ar few dealers, their main focus being on North America and lately on Japan, China and a few Arab countries. This is purely a strategic and practical marketing choice. The marketing and sales dxepartment is a one man's department staffed by one person, the owner Dr. Indrek Laul a Juliard school graduate and concert pianist with his office in New York.

I know off two dealers in Germany and one in Switzerland. Other enthousiasts form Europe have to make the trouble of travelling to Tallinn and pick an instrument from the factory. I know one person in Italy who has done so a couple of years ago and one owner in Sweden who acquired an Estonia directly from Tallinn a couple of months ago:
http://www.pianoworld.com/forum/ubbthre ... ost1159963

Meanwhile I will enjoy playing my Estonia and am reassured that at least a few members here value the Estonia piano and that at least one piano professional from Scotland - although not an Estonia dealer - very much knows what he is talking about.

Finally if any critical piano professional from the UK wants to show me the weak technical spots of my piano or if any piano enthousiast from the UK wants to come and play my piano, just send me a PM. Take the Eurostar and make it a trip to Belgium. You are most welcome and I can offer you a nice beer or some chocolates if you prefer.

schubert

[D.J.Smith]

Schubert : A small correction. The sales/info contact is Indrek's father Venno. Both of his parents, musicians themselves, are involved in the running of the company.

If anyone in the UK would like to try a 2001 built 168 they are welcome to come to Norfolk after the 30th., when Barry Carradine will have done a routine regulation.

BTW, I emailed Besbrode twice about the 190 without reply. I finally 'phoned and was told it has been sold, although it is still on their website. I gained the impression Besbrode were totally uninterested in selling any piano.

[joseph]

I have played 1 Estonia in a concerto rehearsal, it was a 1970s concert grand, which was OK but nothing special. Not in the same league as Yamaha.

I have played quite a few new Estonias, here and there, all of them smaller pianos, and they have without exception been beautiful sounding pianos.

Then I have played Artur's rebuilt 1990 Estonia concert grand which frankly blew me away. Not strictly an Estonia anymore I suppose- more of a Leverett-Estonia, but it is a wonderful piano.

While I think that you'd be hard pushed to beat Yamaha and Kawai for the quality/price ratio, and I think there are some examples of Yamaha and Kawai that are every bit as good as Steinway, I have played pianos from China, and the former Soviet states that once upon a time produced terrible pianos and are now producing pianos that are of very high quality and at an excellent price. I think the Estonia might be quite an expensive piano now though. Not sure.

[joe]

If they are so good why no U K distributor,regards U S popularity the americans are very much taken by wanting to buy products which have European heritage good,bad or indifferent, pianos being a prime example.We export many old grands to the States because they pay top dollar for the junk we dont want.All pianos have a place on the market its the pricing policies which confuses,if they are sold at lesser prices in comparision to other makes of better quality fine,but does not seem to be the case.Point made by Joseph on earlier thread regards rebuilt piano is relevant but only cause the Leveritt boys are top dogs at what they do and can make miracles happen no matter what make.

[schubert]

Dr. J. Smith,

You are correct in saying that the contact for Europe is Dr.. Venno Laul - the father - ; he takes care of all enquiries, is the contact if someone from Europe would want to buy one directly from the factory and is also supervising the production.

Dr. Indrek Laul is however the CEO and owner of the company and is located in NY: ; as such he is the "one man marketing machine" that travels around the world:
http://www.estoniapiano.com/index.php?page=100&

If they are so good why no U K distributor

As I have said in my first post and as can be raid in the article I put up this is merely their [Estonia Pianos'] personal marketing choice.
I have no inside information concerning the motivation of this choice but I can see a logical explanation. Dr. I. Laul having graduated at Juliard must have exploited his contacts in the US. Also to build brand recognition in Europe is not an easy job: fighting against world wide recognised Japanese brands and doing this in the 'home territory' of the German brands.

A similar question might been asked about why we hardly see any Mason & Hamlin dealers in Europe - not pieces of crap either I imagine.
Perhaps that some countries are more conservative also in the choices of their brands. But maybe on day you will see a dealer in the UK putting his shoulders under Estonia pianos.
But it will not be an easy job to row upstream as I can read from this forum.

schubert

[joe]

Mason and Hamlin grands are amongst the best,can hardly compare then to Estonia.Estonia price range should be entry level chinese instruments say between £5K to £10k not £12k plus.Strange KK thinks all pianos are not problem free,yeh a sticky note,a wandering unison,a broken string,a squeky pedal,the question is the build quality and the defects on the major components,soundboard.wrestplank.loose bridges if the Leveriits revamped them before been sold fair enough.

[Kemble King]

Mason and Hamlin grands are amongst the best,can hardly compare then to Estonia.Estonia price range should be entry level chinese instruments say between £5K to £10k not £12k plus.Strange KK thinks all pianos are not problem free,yeh a sticky note,a wandering unison,a broken string,a squeky pedal,the question is the build quality and the defects on the major components,soundboard.wrestplank.loose bridges if the Leveriits revamped them before been sold fair enough.

Slight misquote there Joe, if you take time to read what I said, it was ' Name one piano brand that doesn't 'from time to time' have problems.' not 'thinks all pianos are not problem free'. If you really think Estonia pianos fall into that price bracket then here's laughing at you. Estonia are a small company and firmly believe on quality NOT quantity and if the US of A buy most of the stock because they regard the instrument highly then good on them, hence very little left for Europe.

[Kemble King]

Loose Bridges? Never really come across a loose bridge,what with the tremendous down bearing from the strings on a bridge.

Anyway, Moscow.

But I will be Russian back.

KK

[Kemble King]

Estonia pianos were never made by bad craftsmen, they only had a limited source of material to work with as every part had to be sourced in Russia until they broke away in 1991.

Yet again may I say that a country does not make a piano, people do.

KK

[Barrie Heaton]

Loose Bridges? Never really come across a loose bridge,what with the tremendous down bearing from the strings on a bridge.

Anyway, Moscow.

But I will be Russian back.

KK

Never tuned 1920 Chappell then, very common for the floating bridge to float off

Barrie

[vernon]

Kemble King

Never seen a loose bridge?------shows how young and naive you are. I too remember when I had to start shaving.

Most older bridges that are fixed with screws and glue were never screwed when new-- even capped bridges.
The screwing came later when the bridge loosened and starting singing to you.
Often,when you removed the strings the bridge was not merely loose but completely away only being held in place by KK's downward pressure

[joseph]

Kemble King

Never seen a loose bridge?------shows how young and naive you are. I too remember when I had to start shaving.

ooh it's getting hot in here.... I have started shaving, but it still doesn't grow in very thick on my cheeks, you know, if I try to grow a beard it looks patchy.

It's ok KK, I've never seen a loose bridge either. But then, I'm a piano player, not a piano tech

[david g]

30 years of knowledge from the best in the business,because it makes profit occasionally does not make it a good piano, complaints are common place with the brand we know are asked to repair the odd one from time to time.Baldwin,Kimball etc are awful but if they make you money suppose we should read Uncle Sams Journal and spend spend spend.How many Estonias have been sent back to Russia with love,split soundboards,hairline cracked wrestplanks,loose bridges and polyester case imperfections ask uncle Al he might know.

I don't suppose many modern Estonias have been sent back to Russia, since they were never there in the first place. Estonia has been a separate country for 18 years now.