H.G.Schubert piano

Synderm · Post by **Synderm** » 12 Mar 2009, 22:07

Hi there,

I am currently renting a brand new H.G.Schubert baby grand piano with option to buy it at the end
of rental period. It will be 1 year old then. The asking price will be £3500.

I have tried, unsuccessfully, to find out information about the piano, other than it is probably made in
China. I would like to ask advice from others more knowledgable than I, whether it is worth buying,
or, for the money should I consider other options.

I would be very interested to hear what others think about its build/action/tone quality.

Thank you in advance

Michelle

Kemble King · Post by **Kemble King** » 12 Mar 2009, 22:28

Depends on what size the piano is. I know the HG Schubert pianos, and would have to say you could get alot better for the money that you are paying.

mgmcgill · Post by **mgmcgill** » 15 Apr 2009, 23:02

Phone 'The Edinburgh Piano Company'.

I'm sure they sale them. I seem to remember they had quite a few of them.

http://maps.google.co.uk/maps?client=fi ... 2wK8iL3wDg

Michael

piano heads · Post by **piano heads** » 20 Apr 2009, 13:31

Would never encourage low end piano buying,how much was the rent?.Seen new chinese new for £3,500.better with a yam or kawai,least there be some residual in years to come and the quality of action temperance and tuning stability is far superior

Kemble King · Post by **Kemble King** » 21 Apr 2009, 10:27

HG Schubert is not low end brand quality its just not as well known as Yam or Kawai.

The small Schubert grands and uprights are certainly better than low end Yams.

I think you will find value for money is the Key here, and the dealer has been very good to hire out a grand on long term hire in the first place.

piano heads · Post by **piano heads** » 21 Apr 2009, 12:29

H G Scubert,where they made,is their a manufacturers guarantee,where have they been tried and tested,are they as good as brodmans,do thet stay in tune,do the notes stick,or are they just another brand to confuse and fleece joe public,yams and kawais every time if buying new.

chrisvenables · Post by **chrisvenables** » 21 Apr 2009, 14:13

Never come across a new Schubert, but regarding a manufacturer's guarantee, what's it worth if the company goes into liquidation, or ceases production? I'm not defending Schubert pianos because I don't know them, but I've had sticking notes, sluggish dampers etc on plenty of new ones, Kawais, Yamahas and Steinways included. It comes with the territory and is one reason why the customer needs to choose a reputable dealer who has good technical experience.

As you said in an early topic there's maybe more closures to come. Choosing the right dealer with a good track record is equally important as choosing the right piano maker. At least then the customer is minimising the risk of losing his guarantee in the unfortunate event of either the dealer or the manufacturer going under.

piano heads · Post by **piano heads** » 21 Apr 2009, 15:25

Kemble king in one hand your telling person there are better piano about than H G Schubert and then defending the piano in your next tread,and am quite sure the person will be paying for rent and delivery,unless the piano has been supplied FREE GRATIUS,hardly seems likely,its fire wood same,what piano would you buy and why?,budget 5k,a rehashed british or germanic names piece of fire wood or a quality proven japanese pianos i.e yamaha or kawai

mindbender · Post by **mindbender** » 22 Apr 2009, 00:38

Kemble King didn't say 'there are better piano (sic) about than the HG Schubert', he said the Op could get a lot better for the money the OP was paying. Why twist his words?

Kemble King · Post by **Kemble King** » 22 Apr 2009, 15:33

piano heads wrote:Kemble king in one hand your telling person there are better piano about than H G Schubert and then defending the piano in your next tread,and am quite sure the person will be paying for rent and delivery,unless the piano has been supplied FREE GRATIUS,hardly seems likely,its fire wood same,what piano would you buy and why?,budget 5k,a rehashed british or germanic names piece of fire wood or a quality proven japanese pianos i.e yamaha or kawai

In a perfect world I would supply a Steinway everytime, Mr Head you seem to be very angry about something? If you must know, the piano in question has been hired by myself from my own shop tuned and delivered personaly, and I would certainly not regard it as firewood. My client is not dissatisfied with the piano, he is just simply carrying out homework before he commits to a purchase of a grand piano after his rental period comes to an end. We also sell Brodmann pianos, and have reccomended them to him as well, as he is not obliged to buy the hire piano.

At the time of hire my client did not want to commit to purchase and I was reluctant to hire an expensive grand long term, so the Schubert was a perfect deal for both invloved.

Regards

Kemble King

piano heads · Post by **piano heads** » 22 Apr 2009, 15:53

Kemble King wrote:Depends on what size the piano is. I know the HG Schubert pianos, and would have to say you could get alot better for the money that you are paying.

YOU SEEM TO BE SETTING AND ANSWERING YOUR OWN QUESTION,HOW CAN YOU GIVE AN OPINION WHEN YOUR THE PERSON TRYING TO SELL THE PIANO.

Kemble King · Post by **Kemble King** » 22 Apr 2009, 17:31

At the start of this thread I did not realise it was a grand and thought was an upright. That is why it has got a little confusing.

My apologies Mr Piano-Head

piano heads · Post by **piano heads** » 23 Apr 2009, 12:18

Since we have now established they you are a blogger as well as a piano seller,could you post the info required to the about the H G Schubert range of pianos as in your considered experience they are better than yamahas and kawais,our if the truth be know they are probably a lot more propfitable.

Kemble King · Post by **Kemble King** » 23 Apr 2009, 15:22

I didnt say they were better than Kawai or Yam. I said they were better value for money than a low end Yamaha. I'm really just talking about value for money.

A lot of unbranded chinese pianos can be made to be very good after a few hours work on them.

piano heads · Post by **piano heads** » 23 Apr 2009, 15:39

You clearly state that that H G SCHUBERT upright and grand pianos are better than low end yamahas upright and grand pianos,give us more info,who makes them,is there a manufacturers warranty,how many in the range,what the retail prices,who sells them,do they have a website to reference,i do agree they can be prepped and sound good in shop,how do they last after 2 years,hane they been around that long,whose the distributor,try sell me the piano with your knowledge,am the customer in your shop on a saturday.

chrisvenables · Post by **chrisvenables** » 23 Apr 2009, 22:45

???? !!! But surely you haven't got room for yet another piano if you've just bought TWO new Grotrians?.... Or are you disappointed with them and you want to p/ex?

piano heads · Post by **piano heads** » 23 Apr 2009, 23:02

This forum is getting more exciting by the hour,funny how lepers find new allies whem the chips are down,maybe you can shed some light on H G SCHUBERT,BRODMAN,pianos,you looking to discount the life out of them too,dont think your yamaha buddies be to pleased ,can i have mine medium rare,or is there a charge for BESPOKE PREPARATION.

chrisvenables · Post by **chrisvenables** » 23 Apr 2009, 23:43

Unfortunately since you decided to 'participate' on this forum, it has not become more exciting by the hour, quite the reverse.

You have, in my opinion, degraded the standard of postings to which most forum members would aspire and I for one will not respond to any further posts from you. I will leave it to other members and moderators to react in whichever way they consider appropriate.

piano heads · Post by **piano heads** » 24 Apr 2009, 08:57

Will not be returning to forum either not a place to discuss pianos more like a first wives club,happy trading,hope their no price-fixing.

Kemble King · Post by **Kemble King** » 24 Apr 2009, 09:19

Dont spit you dummy out the pram, its good to have a different point of view. It is a forum after all.

I was starting to enjoy yer banter!!

NewAge · Post by **NewAge** » 24 Apr 2009, 09:23

chrisvenables wrote:Unfortunately since you decided to 'participate' on this forum, it has not become more exciting by the hour, quite the reverse.

You have, in my opinion, degraded the standard of postings to which most forum members would aspire and I for one will not respond to any further posts from you. I will leave it to other members and moderators to react in whichever way they consider appropriate.

Well said!

So obviously I’m not the only one who thought a recent member was a grumpy, ill mannered individual with no thought whatsoever for basic forum etiquette. Not requesting but demanding information from participants in a LOUD VOICE, without as much as a please or thank you. Somewhat of a know-all, who comes across as a real pain in the derriere. So much so that with his affliction I’m sure he can also enlighten us all to what happened to Preparation A to G................

PS: Sure, most people have the odd grumpy day at work, but some seem to cultivate them!

PianoGuy · Post by **PianoGuy** » 24 Apr 2009, 19:42

I just couldn't bear the bad spelling and grammar......

NewAge · Post by **NewAge** » 24 Apr 2009, 21:35

PianoGuy wrote:I just couldn't bear the bad spelling and grammar......

Niether could eye.......

PianoGuy · Post by **PianoGuy** » 28 Apr 2009, 21:53

piano heads wrote:This forum is getting more exciting by the hour,funny how lepers find new allies whem the chips are down,maybe you can shed some light on H G SCHUBERT,BRODMAN,pianos,you looking to discount the life out of them too,

Having read and digested this poorly structured post, I believe that deep down there is more than a grain of sense in it. Whilst CV's heavy discounting of Yamaha annoyed the hell out of the retail trade (especially rather obviously our bellicose Mr heads!) because everybody needed to stock Yamaha in order to be credible, any such discounting of H G Schubert, Estonia, Brodmann, W&L or whatever will simply cause other dealers to discontinue stocking the brands because there's no nationwide perception of them nor demand for them as requested brands.

The Victorian concept of "Sole Agent" may once again become the norm!

piano heads · Post by **piano heads** » 28 Apr 2009, 23:14

Few points here many retailers,piano players tuners,concert halls,schools etc buy yamaha products of all types because they are percieved to offer good value and durability at affordable prices,no argument there,as to the question that retailers needed them for credibility thats down to who was selling them and yamaha only, or specialist piano people who sell lots of different brands of pianos and also restore quality used instuments.The threads on this forum seem to indicate that there is one yamaha dealer changing his tune,and the other wannabees looking to sell anything else but yamaha because they do not fulfill the dealership criteria.People have a freedom of choice what piano to buy and what to avoid.Who buy these pianos that i have mentioned in earlier threads not many people or the blogger would be run of their feet delivering them,and not posting views on the forum to give these overhyped overpriced insruments creedence.Like also to respond to vernon,no supply problems ,no business problems you know who i am thru my I.P.address,as to your discounting question this was done because we believe in selling quality pianos such as yamaha and kawai because in our opinion they are better quality than the other brands available and to do this you compete with discount merchants from the south and hold your own and survive, in what has always been a volume led market.Our business has been invovled in all facets of the piano trade for over 40 years,and will still be around for many years to come giving customers the right advice on how to spend thier money on decent pianos the best business is the repeat customer,,not the quick buck merchants.

PianoGuy · Post by **PianoGuy** » 29 Apr 2009, 07:01

Good points.....

The volume led market is now changing I reckon, hence the need for diversification away from Yamaha.

mdw · Post by **mdw** » 29 Apr 2009, 07:53

piano heads wrote:in what has always been a volume led market. the best business is the repeat customer,,not the quick buck merchants.

I think you are wrong on both these counts. In the big scheme of things this is not a volume market when compared to other trades. The numbers of pianos sold are tiny. The discounters have simply sold their soul ( and everyone elses) for a small amount of money. And if youve sold them a good piano you arnt going to see repeat business. Its not like a car that need replacing every 5 years. Therefore you give up the profit margin this time you wont get it back in 5 or 10 years time from the same customer as they dont need another piano and their kids probably wont buy one either.

mdw · Post by **mdw** » 29 Apr 2009, 08:02

PianoGuy wrote:
piano heads wrote:This forum is getting more exciting by the hour,funny how lepers find new allies whem the chips are down,maybe you can shed some light on H G SCHUBERT,BRODMAN,pianos,you looking to discount the life out of them too,
Having read and digested this poorly structured post, I believe that deep down there is more than a grain of sense in it. Whilst CV's heavy discounting of Yamaha annoyed the hell out of the retail trade (especially rather obviously our bellicose Mr heads!) because everybody needed to stock Yamaha in order to be credible, any such discounting of H G Schubert, Estonia, Brodmann, W&L or whatever will simply cause other dealers to discontinue stocking the brands because there's no nationwide perception of them nor demand for them as requested brands.

The Victorian concept of "Sole Agent" may once again become the norm!

I think its great that the discounters want to tell us on here what they are going to stock. Im going to sit back for a while and see how things pan out before commiting to another new brand if Kemble go.

piano heads · Post by **piano heads** » 29 Apr 2009, 13:39

There is a difference between the word DISCOUNTER and being competitive in an open market place,we have never shown discounted new prices on internet site or mark down prices on pianos on display but with the modern way people source pianos they are only 2 clicks away from a 30 per cent saving and we know the culprits without naming them,the customer wants a deal fine and i agree why give it away,will be interesting to see how ANGLO-SCOTTISH ALLIANCE works,if they are both buying direct from same supplier how they are going to give these products profile,pricing etc,with the slow down in piano market as in every other industry,my opinion is wont be too long before,they realise a leopard never changes its spots.

piano heads · Post by **piano heads** » 29 Apr 2009, 14:31

Getting away from selling yamaha,as you know and i realise people want to buy their products so whats the solution import used ones tart them up and sell them okay if able to get the good ones and are able to do the neccasary repairs and prepping but have become too expensive and so much nonsense information on the net which cloud the issues,have you seen 'the retro chinese ones'.Had customer the other day 'you got any used u1s whats the age and whats the price'gave her all the info,she replied 'your too expensive seen one for half the price on ebay'explained to her ours was orginally sold by us 20 years ago and had been maintained twice yearly and we never judge piano by the age but by the condition made no difference stormed out because we would not sell her the one we had at the prices she wanted to pay.Diverting is the way to go but not many brands out there you want to stock as sid wadell often says;new for show and secondhand for dough;

PianoGuy · Post by **PianoGuy** » 29 Apr 2009, 19:50

piano heads wrote:Getting away from selling yamaha,as you know and i realise people want to buy their products so whats the solution import used ones tart them up and sell them

And of course, it's the heavy discounting of genuine new UK Yam stock which has caused dealers who can't compete to look to these imports, some of which are atrocious high-milers. In turn this leads to chancers and part-timers selling them from front rooms, garages and dodgy industrial estate units. There is no comparison with some of these heaps with good, well maintained original-UK-market used stock. Trouble is, a 40 year old U1 can externally still look like new.

piano heads · Post by **piano heads** » 29 Apr 2009, 22:40

Very true,you have just described the second thread on the topic : the piano heeds returns;.

chrisvenables · Post by **chrisvenables** » 29 Apr 2009, 23:24

PianoGuy wrote:
And of course, it's the heavy discounting of genuine new UK Yam stock which has caused dealers who can't compete to look to these imports, some of which are atrocious high-milers. In turn this leads to chancers and part-timers selling them from front rooms, garages and dodgy industrial estate units. There is no comparison with some of these heaps with good, well maintained original-UK-market used stock. Trouble is, a 40 year old U1 can externally still look like new.

Hey PG, I respect your views, you're one of the few that have a real knowledge of the piano business. BUT, although I agree with your views on well maintained original Uk market stock being infinitely superior to the nasty second hand Japanese imports: who are the 'dealers who can't compete'? Why can't they compete? Euro-world is a free market. Yamaha Europe now have a 'level playing field' as they choose to call it. Anyone can open a 'bricks and mortar' retail premises, and so could you if you wished. Anyone can buy new Yamahas at the same price as a dealer who buys £1,000,000 plus. So ANY body can compete, if they want to.

There will always be the 'chancers and part timers' selling from their front rooms, garages and dodgy(?) industrial estates' that you mention. That is and will always be the case, whether there's new Yamaha around or not. You'll like the next bit - as a motor analogy , there are LOADS of second hand BMW, MERC, VOLVO dealers operating from (almost) front rooms, garages, and dodgy industrial estates. That's what the world's come to expect. It's bad, but it's true.

mdw · Post by **mdw** » 30 Apr 2009, 08:25

chrisvenables wrote:
There will always be the 'chancers and part timers' selling from their front rooms, garages and dodgy(?) industrial estates' .

There are a fair few chancers operating full time out of shop fronts as well!!! I think the debate should be good piano dealers vs crap ones. How do you define part time. I personaly have never opperated sitting in the shop full time as it would bore me to tears as I do little overhaul work now. So most of my time is out tuning, moving, insurance jobs etc. Customers seem happy to ring and arrange a time to visit. Does that make me a part timer despite my 3 years training, qualifiactions and 25 years in the trade?

Most people are p****d off with discounter for the following reason. You take the cream off the cake over the whole country. The profit on new sales made up for the areas where we did the work that perhaps wasnt profitable but needed doing in a whole service business. And as we all know its nice to have a bit of cream onthe cake

thats what makes it worthwhile.

chrisvenables · Post by **chrisvenables** » 30 Apr 2009, 08:58

Just to set ther record straight, I didn't make the original quote about the 'chancers and partitime sellers' etc, I was quoting from Piano Guy's post.

mdw · Post by **mdw** » 30 Apr 2009, 09:28

chrisvenables wrote:Just to set ther record straight, I didn't make the original quote about the 'chancers and partitime sellers' etc, I was quoting from Piano Guy's post.

Fair point , I just clicked the quote button on your post.

PianoGuy · Post by **PianoGuy** » 30 Apr 2009, 23:47

mdw wrote: There are a fair few chancers operating full time out of shop fronts as well!!! I think the debate should be good piano dealers vs crap ones. How do you define part time. I personaly have never opperated sitting in the shop full time as it would bore me to tears as I do little overhaul work now. So most of my time is out tuning, moving, insurance jobs etc. Customers seem happy to ring and arrange a time to visit. Does that make me a part timer despite my 3 years training, qualifiactions and 25 years in the trade?

No. I'd define a part-timer as one who has employment outside the piano trade, yet persists in selling pianos because they've picked up a bit of gen about it and think they can make a fast buck. You know the kind of thing: Petrol station attendant, shelf-stacker, mechanical engineer (they're the worst!) etc. etc..... People who sell via eBay maybe?

Bob Pierce · Post by **Bob Pierce** » 01 May 2009, 00:06

I agree that E-bay is not good for the trade. I know of a "dealer" who buy's Sh*t from the auctions and sells it via E-bay and quite frankly it's not fit for the skip.
Discounters just cheapen the product.

chrisvenables · Post by **chrisvenables** » 01 May 2009, 08:32

PianoGuy wrote:
No. I'd define a part-timer as one who has employment outside the piano trade, yet persists in selling pianos because they've picked up a bit of gen about it and think they can make a fast buck. You know the kind of thing: Petrol station attendant, shelf-stacker, mechanical engineer (they're the worst!) etc. etc..... People who sell via eBay maybe?

We have a science teacher cum piano tuner in our area who uses his B Sc credentials on his business card and claims to be a 'PIANO SURGEON' He shouldn't be allowed to 'operate' like that..!