Grotrian Steinweg folded?

[alisonb]

A piano restorer I was speaking to recently said he'd heard that Grotrian Steinweg had become a victim of the credit crunch. Can't find any reference to this anywhere but I hope it's not true. I have a beautiful old upright of theirs that is one of the best pianos I've ever played, either upright or grand.

[piano heads]

Not to my knowledge just had 2 delivered the other week,a cabinet grand for the lounge and an upright for the music room,best german built piano available on todays market none of these rehashed famous names of the past made by third parties in third world countries

[mindbender]

Wow! Have any pics you could share with us as they do on pw forum? What is a cabinet grand? Did you really buy TWO new Grotrians? You must be loaded! Are you a pro musician?

[joseph]

cabinet is the name of one of their models. They have names rather than numbers (like C3).

I'd say that Grotrian are ONE of the best german pianos, but with Steinway and Sons, Bluthner and Bechstein, they have some competition.

[PianoGuy]

Not to my knowledge just had 2 delivered the other week,a cabinet grand for the lounge and an upright for the music room,best german built piano available on todays market none of these rehashed famous names of the past made by third parties in third world countries

Very nice, but German pianos are too expensive for mere mortals.

I agree with your comment about the superiority of many good older British makes; I'm a particular fan of Danemann, and Welmar made a good number of lovely sounding instruments in their time, but most of them now require a good deal of work or even rebuilding before they're top notch again, and there are precious few workshops left that I'd rate as good enough to do it. This may be because the "new is better" culture has largely won over, but it's a fact we have to live with. I also find that many of my clients want something that looks a bit more stylish than the seriously outdated appearance of a '60s Knight with its rounded shoulders and "Festival of Britain" mahogany case. Last week I bought a fabulous Danemann HS2 for my own use. Renner action, triple veneered casework, cracking good scale design, sounds pretty fab at the moment, but when it's restrung with German wire will be a true Bechstein-beater. Trouble is, I ended up with it because nobody else wanted to buy it because it looks so chuffing dated. Their loss, and at £300, my gain. I reckon it'll look great next to the Robin Day sofa too, but that's very much my own taste and I'm in the minorty of minorities. If I were in the selling business, I'd never turn a profit on it.

Now that the last remaining budget German piano company (Schimmel) is on the edge if not over it, we in the UK will have to stump up serious wedge for genuine German instruments, and in the real world unless you're a pro musician, they're simply not worth it, so we're back to Yamaha, Kemble, Kawai and the Far Eastern manufacturers. Of these, Chinese build quality of the high-end models has way surpassed Korean and Indonesian standards, streets ahead of Polish tat, at least as good as Czech, and like it or not, some are very good indeed. Very soon China will be a First World country , and we will be relegated. It's a sad fact of life that some of the great (mainly third rung, it must be said!!) brand names of the past have been bought by Chinese concerns, but they've done it, so we have to live with it. I'm not happy that they own MG and Rover either, but if the product turns out to be good, people will buy it.

I really can sympathise with your dislike of all this, after all, Gors (no umlaut these days) and Kallmann, Waldstein, Weber and other bear no resemblance to their forbears. I'm not sure that they are really trading on the glories of the past though, because few people outside the trade will remember the originals. The names just give a bit more cred than the home-grown Pearl-Rivers and Xinghais. The instruments claiming European heritage such are Wendl, Perzina and Brodmann (although this company's 'history' is totally fabricated) do have some grounding for this though. They are designed in Austria or Germany, use many German, British and Austrian materials; some have Renner actions and/or hammers, some are regulated (rather well actually) in European factories before despatch. most importantly, they are affordable. German pianos are not, and now Japanese pianos are heading that way. I have always argued that they should have been priced up there to begin with, since many Yamahas (no, not the b-series!) are superior to many German pianos for build quality anyway, it's merely the heavy discounting of the past that has cheapened the public's perception of them.

So:

Few people are lucky enough to be able to afford German pianos. That is unlikely to change.

Few people would give a restored 60s - 80s European piano houseroom because they look dated. You are unlikely to change their opinion.

Some Chinese pianos are better than you think. Go and try some!!

[piano heads]

would wholeheartly agree with piano guy comments,its the over pricing of the chinese pianos i object to and the use of good quality older known pianos bee used to market them,as to having plenty cash to spend on 2 pianos,was left money in trust which had to be spent on a piano,and was determinded to get the best deals possible.Went round the London circuit.and found pianos very prices,my great uncle had an old GRORTIAN,which was a fab old piano,and decided to enquire further,and evetually bought it from a scotish bona-fide GROTRIAN,agent.Asto buying 2 the money had to be spent on a piano and nothing else hece i was able to get 2 pianos,for the same price the london dealer was charging for 1.

[alisonb]

Glad to hear they aren't folding. Don't have much experience of modern pianos I'm afraid. My Grotrian Steinweg is very old, my mum got it in 1945. It is a 1873 'upright grand' and I wouldn't swap it for anything. A few years ago, when I was looking for a piano I couldn't find an upright to touch it (don't have the room for a grand). Even several grands didn't (ok,I didn't try any Steinway concert grands ). I managed to persuade my mum to let me look after it for her since she also had a Wolfframm grand (not a well known make I know, but still a gorgeous turn of the century instrument). I had it reconditioned and it is stunning, there were no major faults or cracksto worry about, just wear and tear. The guy who restored it was very impressed, he thought it one of the best uprights he'd seen (when restored) on a par with the best Vertigrands. Ok most 130 year old pianos, even good makes, may not be in good enough condition now depending how they've been kept. I think it's sad that so many people have to have new, if you play the touch and sound are far more important thatnlooks and in most cases a quality old piano is preferable to a cheaply manufactured new one (not that my piano doesn't look stunning imo).
Of course, my piano was made only 8 years after Theodore Steinweg/Steinway left to join the rest of the family in New York, so in all likelyhood was built by those who had worked with and learnt from him directly. I'll try and get some photos on here at some point if anyone is interested.

[PianoGuy]

The guy who restored it was very impressed, he thought it one of the best uprights he'd seen (when restored) on a par with the best Vertigrands.

A backhanded compliment possibly since most restorers detest Vertigrands, or working on them at any rate. Personally in general I think they're waffly old boxes with little to commend them and I'd rate a Grotrian of similar age as far superior.

Is yours badged as a "Th. Steinweg Nachf. ?

[PianoGuy]

would wholeheartly agree with piano guy comments,its the over pricing of the chinese pianos i object to and the use of good quality older known pianos bee used to market them,

The Chinese are learning from the mistakes made by the Japanese some 40 years ago or so. When Yamaha entered the Western market there was a huge amount of inertia from the public to accept these foreign-sounding pianos. By adopting European names, the Chinese sidestep this problem. Even if the name isn't particularly well known, there will probably be history behind it to give it extra cred.

Also take the genuine British, Austrian, Dutch and German owned companies with bona-fide history who now simply choose to build in China. Companies like Sandner, Bentley, Eavestaff, Perzina, Rippen and many others? Does this mean they are being fraudulent? I think not. Even Yamaha built their C110 there, but it hardly makes Yamaha less of a Japanese company.

[alisonb]

The guy who restored it was very impressed, he thought it one of the best uprights he'd seen (when restored) on a par with the best Vertigrands.

A backhanded compliment possibly since most restorers detest Vertigrands, or working on them at any rate. Personally in general I think they're waffly old boxes with little to commend them and I'd rate a Grotrian of similar age as far superior.

Is yours badged as a "Th. Steinweg Nachf. ?

I don't think it was a backhanded compliment. I know I'm going to be biased as it's my piano and I love it, but although there was nothing seriously wrong, there was a lot of work to do. The first restorer I approached did not take it on, although he could see it was worth restoring. In common with Steinway uprights, I think it was a fairly big job. The guy who restored it has restored several Steinways, including old Vertigrands.

And yes, it is badged as ''Th.Steinweg Nachf'' (although I think this was used into the first few years of the 20th century anyway).

[dan_z]

Yamaha may have done it hard at first but in the long run it seems to me they have benefited from developing their own brand. Some Chinese pianos maybe fine, but will anyone really remember them in the long run when we all know many of the names are from long extinct European makers? Now Yamaha is one of the most respected names in pianos, even if they are not to everyone's taste.

What do others think. You find a Yamaha in good condition and it will sound like a Yamaha, even given that each model has its own character. And a Steinway in good condition sounds like a Steinway. But a Bechstein could be wonderful or pretty ordinary, same with Bluthner. One of the loveliest pianos I played was a communist era Bluthner, strange to say. But to get to the Grotrian topic... I played a rebuilt one the other day and it was a fantastic instrument. It played like silk and the sound was complex and beautiful. Wish I could afford it...