re gluing ivory

[joseph]

Hi folks

Some of the ivory keytops have come off my bluthner, it was bound to happen eventually... the ivory doesn't appear warped and i want to glue it back on. What is the best glue to use? I don't want to damage the ivory by using a glue that would prevent the ivory coming off without damaging it (like if i was to have to ditch the action, which is unlikely, but the ivory is in such good condition it could be re used).

It is the front piece of the two piece ivory that has come off.

[tuna]

Hi Joseph, You can buy 'ivory glue' from Fletcher and Newman but I always keep a bottle of super glue gel in my case. The ivory glue is messier and involves the use of a clamp.

Just make sure the ivory fronts go back where they came from as they will have a slightly different shape where they join against the tail.

.....and make sure they are glued back on straight! Sounds obvious I know, but i've seen plently that have been glued back on arseways!

[Barrie Heaton]

Ivory is transparent so you need a glue that drys white or clear. Supper Glue as tuna as pointed out is very good don't put the glue on the but joints of the ivory about five drops on the wood then bring the wafer edges together, wet your fingers so any glue that spills out will not stick as well to your fingers

Taking the key out makes the job simpler but if a grand not so simple for you to take the key out if the joints are raised a tad, get some 1000 grit paper and sand them will take a wile but with that fine a paper you will not that too much off

Barrie,

[vernon]

Joseph
There was a good thread started by me about glueing ivories, either on Pianos or Piano retailers.
I can't go over it all but it is very tricky to get a good result give me a PM for superb guidance!
vernon

[vernon]

Joseph
There was a good thread started by me about glueing ivories, either on Pianos or Piano retailers.
I can't go over it all but it is very tricky to get a good result give me a PM for superb guidance!
vernon

[Pianomate]

No! No! N0! Please don't use superglue! It leaves an awful residue and can't easily be cleaned off. You don't get a second chance to adjust or correct any misalignment. In addition to the above, some superglues go yellow with age. If you've gone to all the trouble of an expensive piano, do you really want a bodge job done on it? I am from the antiques business and hate to see poorly done repairs and poorly reattached keytops. To do it correctly just takes a bit of time and patience.

A good quality neutral PVA glue suitable for antique restoration is all I use. You can't get away from using clamps and you can't make a decent job without removing the key from the piano. Don't cut corners for the sake of a few minutes work!

First you need to check that none of the white paint under the keytop is missing or it will show through a finished key. Re-touch with some white matt.

A good G cramp and a small wooden block is all you need for reattaching the key front. Getting them aligned is quite a skill - you need to position the cramp so that it is ever so slightly skewed to the front of the key. When you tighten it up, it will force the keytop front section tight against the tail section. screw up slightly, check for alignment, slacken and adjust if necessary and make sure the keytop front and back sections are tight together. Cramp up reasonably tight and wipe off any surplus glue with a damp cloth. When dried, any thin dry glue residue will rub off with a damp cloth.

[Barrie Heaton]

First you need to check that none of the white paint under the keytop is missing or it will show through a finished key. Re-touch with some white matt.

White paint !!! Bluthner used Titanium oxide mixed with animal glue or glue wafers which was thin gauze soaked in animal glue whitened with Titanium oxide no paint.

PAV dry s dark so if he has not sealed the ivory it will stain the ivory and if he uses the wrong colour paint the top will stick out

Barrie,

[Pianomate]

True, but I didn't want to get into too much detail, and too much hassle to redo this - easier just to touch-in the odd chip. I also believe some manufacturers used white lead pigment in the glue for the keytops.

The technique is similar to the attachment of mother of pearl inlays.

Yes, some PVA dries dark but I use Liberon PVA woodglue which dries neutral and is especially formulated for the sympathetic restoration of antiques.

Above all, never use pearl glue as the dark colour stains through.

However, if he wants a professional job, ask a pro to do it.

[joseph]

...didn't mean to start an argument

Thanks for the advice, i might just get a pro to do it in the end.... I don't want to cause un necessary damage to the keyboard, or glue the keys together

[tuna]

Pianomate, I can't really see myself gluing an ivory back on that way when i'm out on the road tuning and there is one head that has come off. How long would i have to wait for the PVA to dry? That is after waiting for the white paint to dry. I agree that it is much easier with the key removed, but if it's a grand, this involves removing the action from the keyboard first, which would just take more time and cost the customer a lot more.

I know super glue isn't the perfect glue to use, but for most cases it is the most practical method.

I usually use tippex instead of white paint....dries a lot quicker!

I think some ivories have white silk underneath them?

[vernon]

tippex ! what an idea . Never thought of that.
btw, if you are on the road and need to re-glue a head, heat the caul for the key clamp on the customers cooker and the glue will be set by the time you have tuned the piano.

[vernon]

Joseph
I forgot to say that if you have several heads off then others may be due to leave their ancestral home.
Tap each ivory gently at the front and you will hear if there are any unglued. If they are not actually seperate from the key, insinuate glue under the ivory with a razor blade ( how old are you vernon?)without popping it off .Then clamp with the clamps I will lend you!

[Barrie Heaton]

...didn't mean to start an argument

We all have different ways of doing things and its nice to see other ways of approaching a problem or repair. That how we learn, the trick it to keep an open mind as the way you were shown is not necessarily the best way in all circumstances.


So keep em coming

Barrie,