Help - Bluthner or Yamaha

[babyjoola]

Hi everyone

I hope there is someone out there who could give me some advice.
I am going to purchase an upright piano for my wife who is grade 8 standard. She currently plays a 1936 Challen which is really starting to sound tired with sticking keys etc.

My budget is around £2000 - £2200 and a dealer has shown me a few options mostly Yamaha U1 models of 1980 vintage at £2200.

He has also thrown into the mix a Yamaha U3 1980 at £2500 and also a 1979 Bluthner (I think a model A - it is is shorter than the U1 which was next to it) at £2500. The Bluthner was part-exchanged recently and they are looking for a quick sale. I could stretch my budget if this looks like good value.

Being a guitarist and not a pianist I took a pianist friend along to try the various pianos and the Bluthner sounded very sweet and musical, the U1's being a bit "dry" sounding and the U3 a bit too loud.

Having researched the web the Bluthner really looks like a bargain.
I was hoping for the decision to be easy, perhaps it is!

Any thoughts welcomed.

[PianoGuy]

Having researched the web the Bluthner really looks like a bargain.
I was hoping for the decision to be easy, perhaps it is!

Any thoughts welcomed.

I don't know what research you've done, but by now you should know that the piano in question is a Communist era Blüthner built in East Germany. Think Wartburg, Trabant, suppression of Western pop music, automatic shooting of people found crossing over a lump of concrete etc.....

Commie Blüthners can be OK, but they need to be scrutinised with extreme caution. Better ones have a Renner action fitted, rather than the stock Flemming item, or even worse, the apalling Pianic action which appeared to be made of offcuts of Duroplast from the Trabi production line glued together with Russian potato starch. Build quality was variable, from the superb to the utterly diabolical. As you have found, residual values can be iffy.

The Model A is still in production, but these days is built beautifully and costs upwards of 18k, so if you find a good one you're laughing. Most of the time though you won't be.

Get a local tuner to check it over for you, and preferably tune it to see if any wrestpins are dodgy.

[ennjaydee]

A 79 Model A is likely to sell for 7-8k if brought up to scratch at a reputable dealer. Anything less you need to find out why. Poor quality parts (PG wrote "offcuts of Duroplast from the Trabi production line glued together with Russian potato starch" - Ha Ha ) and early polyester cracking can be issues.

I'm a Bluthner fan (new Model A) but believe that you generally get what you pay for, especially from a reputable dealer. So get independent expert advice.

Re Yamahas I found that newer 5,000,000+ serial numbers sounded much better than older ones. There are loads of U1s and U3s out there so take time to look around. May be worth stretching budget to get the newest you can afford; it won't earn you anything in the bank anymore!

At the end of the day your wife will know the sound and touch she likes the best as it's always personal choice.

[PianoGuy]

A 79 Model A is likely to sell for 7-8k if brought up to scratch at a reputable dealer.

Exactly that, but it can take a lot of work, hence the price. In effect you appear to be buying raw material to which work is likely to be needed, or perhaps the dealer just wants a quick sale on a basically decent instrument, but as I said before, take a tuner along, because in some cases they're wonderful in spite of their manufacturing conditions.

[pianotechman]

Speaking as a 'tech' at 'Bluthners' Perivale at the time this model 'A' would have been imported, the tuning pins were usually fine, some of them did have problems with lifting veneer edges on the polyesters as has been pointed out. The main issue is the tone of the instrument over a period of time. The East German hammers used were not that good quality quite frankly. Get a good tech to fit a new set of west German 'ABEL' hammers and you'll have a great piano!

[PianoGuy]

The East German hammers used were not that good quality quite frankly. Get a good tech to fit a new set of west German 'ABEL' hammers and you'll have a great piano!

As long as the action's OK!

To be fair, most of the ones officially imported to the UK were fitted with Renners from the mid '80s onwards, mainly because Herr Blüthner fixed it so that East German manufactured components which had to be used where possible were in 'short supply' whenever an export model was built. The Pianic actions and the Flemmings fitted to a few export models and all home market models were very much poorer.

[ennjaydee]

Babyjoola, please let us know what you decided.

[sussexpianos]

As everyone has said, the Bluthner is being sold cheap because it probably needs work and the dealer either cannot be bothered and wants some cash instead, or its going to cost a lot to bring the instrument upto a reasonable standard.
So, have it it inspected or at least ask the dealer to give you an honest run down of the instrument, but bear in mind he /she want to sell it.
Personaly, id stretch/borrow/beg and get an eairly U1/U1X and if the room allows it, a U3/U3X. At least you'd know that its well built and you dont need to change anything.

[PianoGuy]

Just tuned a 1985 Commie Blüthner model M.

Nicely regulated by a local dealer and a new set of bass strings in a Renner equipped instrument. Really not bad at all, and a snip of the price of a new one.

There are the odd bargains around, but get that tuner in to take a look at it!!!

[babyjoola]

Thanks for all the advice, the Bluthner was sold late last week so it's out of the equation but we have decided on a 1991 U1 with a ballanced tone and a remarkable bass.

My wife fell in love with it as soon as she played it, getting it delivered tomorrow.

Thanks again for all the advice.

[MarkGoodwinPianos]

Congrats on your purchase BabyJoola.
Sounds like you got a good one


Mark