Four weeks ago we took delivery of a new Irmler 132 A piano. We spent a lot of time trying all the pianos in the shop and chose this for it's overall sound and lovely deep bass. But, now our new piano has arrived and we are frankly very disappointed with the sound. Specifically:
1. On around half of the lower bass notes there is a very distinct metallic ring when the key is struck loudly - as if there is some guy sat inside hitting a tubular bell with a hammer a couple of octaves up..
2. The upper registers do not have any sort of staying power, sounding almost flat and dying quickly when struck, even when using the pedal.
3. Despite having just had it's tuning, the hormonics on some of the notes just sound awful to me.
We've had the piano guy (and owner of the shop) back to do the retune, but he simply couldn't hear what the problem was on the low notes and said that it was perfectly in tune. We have the piano on a tile floor in a room with a lot of echo, so are probably going to be hearing a level of stuff that would normally be damped I would guess.
The question is - is this the level of quality that we must expect for a +/-£4K piano? I feel that we've made a really big mistake here and am not sure what to do next. Any advice?
Thanks,
Debbie
Irmler piano - advice please
Moderators: Feg, Gill the Piano, Melodytune
Re: Irmler piano - advice please
Is it an Irmler or Irmler Europe?debbie wrote:
The question is - is this the level of quality that we must expect for a +/-£4K piano? I feel that we've made a really big mistake here and am not sure what to do next. Any advice?
Thanks,
Debbie
It will be labelled on the fall.
Just out of interest - did you play and chose this piano in the piano store - or did you take delivery of some other piano that came from some warehouse. Did it have these problems with the tone when you tested it?
I can only offer sympathy - since the arrival of a new piano should be such a pleasant experience.
I can only offer sympathy - since the arrival of a new piano should be such a pleasant experience.
Thanks for all the replies on this.
The piano is a different one from the one that we played in the shop - it was delivered new.
I can understand the tone sounding different from the showroom as we have the piano in a completely different sort of acoustic space, but I hadn't expected the sharp metallic clanging sounds on some (but not all) of the base notes. Also some very piercing accompanying sounds on some of the higher notes. Some of the notes play very sweetly, but I would say, certainly of the bass notes, less than a third sound pleasant when played loudly.
My thoughts at present are to get another piano tuner in to give us a second opinion...but then what?...
The piano is a different one from the one that we played in the shop - it was delivered new.
I can understand the tone sounding different from the showroom as we have the piano in a completely different sort of acoustic space, but I hadn't expected the sharp metallic clanging sounds on some (but not all) of the base notes. Also some very piercing accompanying sounds on some of the higher notes. Some of the notes play very sweetly, but I would say, certainly of the bass notes, less than a third sound pleasant when played loudly.
My thoughts at present are to get another piano tuner in to give us a second opinion...but then what?...
A very bad idea not to buy the one you've heard and approved.debbie wrote:Thanks for all the replies on this.
The piano is a different one from the one that we played in the shop - it was delivered new.
Get the dealer either to replace it with the one that you liked or refund.
End of.
It's not the item you agreed to buy.
Do it now rather than later.
Ditto the message of PianoGuy...
I have been amazed by the difference in tone/sound of apparently identical pianos....
You should tell the pianoshop that you are returning this piano - and want a full refund - or the delivery of the same model piano if you like the tone/sound in his show room.
It is easy for us to give this advice - and much harder for you to execute it... but forever you will be kicking yourself about the unpleasant tone of this piano - and piano playing is hard enough even if you love your piano...
Courage!
I have been amazed by the difference in tone/sound of apparently identical pianos....
You should tell the pianoshop that you are returning this piano - and want a full refund - or the delivery of the same model piano if you like the tone/sound in his show room.
It is easy for us to give this advice - and much harder for you to execute it... but forever you will be kicking yourself about the unpleasant tone of this piano - and piano playing is hard enough even if you love your piano...
Courage!
This happens at all levals of piano retailing. The only way to stop it is to take the serial number of the one you try in the shop. Another good reason not to buy sight unseen/heard from an interet monkey. Not sure what the distance selling regs are if you have tried one in the shop but not that exact one. Best check with trading standards quick as I think at best you only have 2 weeks to return it ( at your cost I think).PianoGuy wrote:It's the oldest trick in the book to prepare a piano beautifully in the showroom and sell "identical" ones from it, often straight out the box with inedequate prep or regulation.
Somehow PianoGuy always gets in with the correct statement - and gets in first! But actually - I would take the one in the show room even if it is wrong colour. Hopefully the support you received here will arm you well to stand your ground - but please educate us - exactly how did the dealer convince you to take a new one - sight unseen - versus the one you liked in the showroom.If the one you liked in the shop is still there and is in the right colour etc, just get the dealer to exchange it.
I wish you good luck
Really sorry to hear your story Debbie. It's amazing how different pianos of identical spec can be. A visit to the Steinway showroom to try a few of any given model will show that it even applies to the big names.
I really hope the dealer will do the right thing. It won't cost him much as the one you got can be sold on (hopefully after being sorted).
Anyway, good luck.
I really hope the dealer will do the right thing. It won't cost him much as the one you got can be sold on (hopefully after being sorted).
Anyway, good luck.
Even more so.Model V wrote:Really sorry to hear your story Debbie. It's amazing how different pianos of identical spec can be. A visit to the Steinway showroom to try a few of any given model will show that it even applies to the big names.
The higher the proportion of handbuilding in an instrument, the greater the likelihood of variation between examples.
Hope you get yourself sorted Debbie.
Best
PG
From Debbie:
I think that I need to give some back story here.
The is more of an ongoing saga than I had originally indicated.. the new Irmler that we currently have is the SECOND one that the shop has delivered to us:
As stated before, we really liked the one in the shop and when we discussed purchasing it, the seller asked if we wanted that one or a new model sent from the factory – there was no comment about the likelihood of them sounding different and we, first time piano buyers had no concept that each piano might be different. We took the one that we had been playing in the shop.
Anyhow, the piano arrived and sounded awful. I’m not sure what had happened in transit, but all the black notes bobbled and there was clearly a different range of movement in the mechanism for each key. We got the dealer back in who sorted the worst bobbling, but said that we should play it for some time so that it could settle in and that then he would come back and recalibrate the mechanisms. He said that it hadn’t been set up correctly, though it had sounded fine in the shop (as mentioned, we do have the piano in a room that really reveals the sound, compared to the full, carpeted showroom from which we bought it).
Thoroughly unnerved by this, we asked if he could exchange it for a new, perfect, model and he agreed. In retrospect of course, we should have persevered with the original.
And then the second, current piano arrived…
I guess this is back to my original question: have we just been unlucky, or how much do we reasonably have to spend to get a decent instrument?
I think that I need to give some back story here.
The is more of an ongoing saga than I had originally indicated.. the new Irmler that we currently have is the SECOND one that the shop has delivered to us:
As stated before, we really liked the one in the shop and when we discussed purchasing it, the seller asked if we wanted that one or a new model sent from the factory – there was no comment about the likelihood of them sounding different and we, first time piano buyers had no concept that each piano might be different. We took the one that we had been playing in the shop.
Anyhow, the piano arrived and sounded awful. I’m not sure what had happened in transit, but all the black notes bobbled and there was clearly a different range of movement in the mechanism for each key. We got the dealer back in who sorted the worst bobbling, but said that we should play it for some time so that it could settle in and that then he would come back and recalibrate the mechanisms. He said that it hadn’t been set up correctly, though it had sounded fine in the shop (as mentioned, we do have the piano in a room that really reveals the sound, compared to the full, carpeted showroom from which we bought it).
Thoroughly unnerved by this, we asked if he could exchange it for a new, perfect, model and he agreed. In retrospect of course, we should have persevered with the original.
And then the second, current piano arrived…
I guess this is back to my original question: have we just been unlucky, or how much do we reasonably have to spend to get a decent instrument?
The fact that they already admitted that the first piano wasn't set-up properly means there's even less excuse for them to fob you off with a second basket case. How on earth can a dealer send out an instrument that hasn't been set-up properly? That shouldn't be possible. It sounds as if you have extremely good grounds for complaint. I hesitate to mention the term 'trading standards' but.......
"Each day grow older, and learn something new."
Solon (c. 630 - c. 500 B.C.), Greek Statesman and Reformer
Solon (c. 630 - c. 500 B.C.), Greek Statesman and Reformer
I am not sure what bobbled means... if I look in my dictionary I find :move with an irregular bouncing motion... sounds bad - are you sure that it was the same model as you tried in the show room... one assumes that the piano was well set up ... and it becomes unprepped by sitting in a truck and moved... sounds fishy to me. How far away from the piano dealer do you live?I’m not sure what had happened in transit, but all the black notes bobbled and there was clearly a different range of movement in the mechanism for each key.
Not sure if there is any evidence of this...In retrospect of course, we should have persevered with the original.
From a distance - I can not say whether you are being ripped off by a sharp operator ... or just been unlucky. For 4000+ GBP I think that you should expect a perfect piano - delivered - with everything working perfectly.. and no metallic sounds etc etc. There are at least two points in this sorry saga makes me suspicious
(a) the first piano that bobbled and being told that it would get better when you play it... maybe the tone may shift a bit ... but for the bobbling to disappear?
(b) the second piano - you state has these very obvious metallic sounds that the dealer refuses to hear....
If this was my piano - I would call an independent tuner/technician (ask your teacher to recommend one) and get him to give an opinion. In the Geneva/Switzerland area it would cost around 100 GBP to get my tuner to visit... maybe it is cheaper in the UK ... but really you need to know with certainty what the situation is.
As a long established dealer I am appalled at some of the stories we hear on this forum.
Before any piano is dispatched from our place, I personally tune it and check everything so it is 100%.
Very occasionally, mainly due to difference in environment, a customer will report a noise or a click or a sluggish note etc.This is attended to immediately.
When we hear of "bobbling" problems and their like on this forum, these are regulation problems that do not suddenly appear and should not be there in the first place on higher priced pianos but are easily cured after a complaint to the supplier.
Granted on lower priced entry pianos, there is generaly more prep required, but the dealer must do this before sale.
Pianos in the Kawai class arrive with very little attention needed save the usual fine tuning and the masters magic touch applied.
On the rare occasions, which I number on the fingers of one hand over 50 years,when a customer is really disappointed with a piano, they get a different one of their choice next day. Then everyone is happy as they should be.
Before any piano is dispatched from our place, I personally tune it and check everything so it is 100%.
Very occasionally, mainly due to difference in environment, a customer will report a noise or a click or a sluggish note etc.This is attended to immediately.
When we hear of "bobbling" problems and their like on this forum, these are regulation problems that do not suddenly appear and should not be there in the first place on higher priced pianos but are easily cured after a complaint to the supplier.
Granted on lower priced entry pianos, there is generaly more prep required, but the dealer must do this before sale.
Pianos in the Kawai class arrive with very little attention needed save the usual fine tuning and the masters magic touch applied.
On the rare occasions, which I number on the fingers of one hand over 50 years,when a customer is really disappointed with a piano, they get a different one of their choice next day. Then everyone is happy as they should be.