Sauter Sound

NewAge · Post by **NewAge** » 03 Dec 2008, 22:53

On this forum recently, Genaa made our mouths water with the news of his new Sauter piano. And I probably along with others, eagerly await to hear some audio recordings of his Masterclass 130.

In the meantime, for those who are unfamiliar with these splendid, relatively unknown pianos, I attach a few audio files of my own. This is my Masterclass 122 model purchased earlier this year.
http://www.box.net/shared/070fbzaun3

For the benefit of Crispin or other fans of recording techniques, these were made using a Zoom H4(V2.10) placed on a tripod approx 1 meter behind and to the right of the pianist.
These direct MP3 recordings were made just prior to the first of two post-delivery tunings, thus the need for a slight tuning is evident especially in the higher ranges.
http://www.box.net/shared/rr7svd0xi8
http://www.box.net/shared/lhsoqjyqcs
http://www.box.net/shared/ozgq8ljg4r

Genaa, it's now over to you.........

Cheers.

A440 · Post by **A440** » 03 Dec 2008, 23:31

Beautiful sound! Is there also a creaky piano stool in there or is it just me? Good mics can pick up everything! I did a piano sample recording of pianos which we tried to keep as clean as possible and we had problems with hearing fingernails on the keys, clothing rubbing and even breathing of the pianist. In the end he was playing with no shirt on trying to hold his breath!
The Sauter sounds superb,I think the clarity and balance of these instruments is second to none. It's all very well having a massive bass, but if the treble needs to be harsh to cut through it the sound is a struggle between each hand.
I find the Sauters to be rich and clear throughout the compass without being over-strident or boastful (Stienway). There is no hint of cotton wool muffle (Bluthner) and there is no harshness (Bechstein). Sauter's sound is characterised by a song-like quality with a pallet of sound unlike any other piano I have encountered in an upright. I think it is most like a Fazioli in it's bell-like treble.
But that's just my humble opinion, I'm sure others feel differently, but there is no wrong or right, I suppose that's the beauty of it all!

crispin · Post by **crispin** » 04 Dec 2008, 09:00

I agree with NewAge and A440 ... the Sauter, especially the MasterClass, is a beautiful instrument... so congratulations to both NewAge and Genaa...

Anyway just to add to this thread a recording of my son playing a Bechstein Academy A124 upright...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M_y70FHRkgQ

The video was taken with the video option of a standard digital camera - with the sound recorded with a Sony pcm-d50 located behind the piano about a meter back... to the left of the pianist..

but I await the recordings of the MasterClass 130 of Genaa..

NewAge · Post by **NewAge** » 04 Dec 2008, 10:38

Pers.Poster,
You’re right, there’s no mistaking the creaky piano stool which bothered me too during the recording session. It was a standard ‘cheap & cheerful’ stool which came as part of the piano deal - to be replaced in due course.
During my extensive search for an upright (to replace a G.S. 189 grand which didn’t live up to expectations), the Sauter range of pianos ticked the boxes for touch, sound and especially high quality.

Crispin,
I enjoyed your recording. A fine instrument and a keen player – takes me back half a century to my son’s lessons.......

mdw · Post by **mdw** » 04 Dec 2008, 12:13

NewAge wrote:It was a standard ‘cheap & cheerful’ stool which came as part of the piano deal

Too late now but you sould have asked them to knock the retail price on it off the piano price.

NewAge · Post by **NewAge** » 04 Dec 2008, 14:18

mdw wrote:
NewAge wrote:It was a standard ‘cheap & cheerful’ stool which came as part of the piano deal
Too late now but you sould have asked them to knock the retail price on it off the piano price.

As it was I had already 'aggressively' negotiated what I thought was an excellent deal, so was more than content. No regrets whatsoever.

ATG · Post by **ATG** » 04 Dec 2008, 22:17

Lovely sound and excellent playing!

Two questions:

1. What are the pieces/composers?

2. Looks like you may have a tiled floor. Did you have to alter the sound with rugs, etc?

Thanks again,

ATG

NewAge · Post by **NewAge** » 05 Dec 2008, 22:10

ATG,
Thanks for the comments.
1. Afraid I’m unable to give a reply to your first query, as my son (who was playing at the time) just sat down and rattled these off from memory. He often improvises from tunes he’s heard, or from general chord progressions. I’d give my left hand to be able to do that.......... Or would I?
2. Yes the piano is on a tiled floor, and as we have under-floor heating it's placed on a thick pile carpet to afford a measure of protection and also improve the acoustics.

Imho the Sauter holds up well to diverse musical styles as detailed by the following clips:

Czerny Etude.
http://www.box.net/shared/h8bve32hdr

Short Haired Blues by Kid Stormy Weather
http://www.box.net/shared/iz8st1j8cz

ennjaydee · Post by **ennjaydee** » 06 Dec 2008, 00:07

NewAge wrote "we have under-floor heating"

- so take special care to check humidity levels - Sauter's inbuilt gauge is handy for that! Had to buy a separate Hygrometer to keep my Bluthner in check but at least it sings beautifully not like A440 says with a "hint of cotton wool muffle "

crispin · Post by **crispin** » 06 Dec 2008, 01:13

Now that ennjaydee has joined this thread - I look forward to a audio sample of this cotton wool....

NewAge · Post by **NewAge** » 06 Dec 2008, 10:30

Enjaydee/ Crispin:
Hygrometer checked daily. Steady at 47 RH (for recommended 40-70 on Sauter’s built-in unit).

Hinting of cotton-wool & audio samples did you have this in mind........?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uDNy4YuCxdk

genaa · Post by **genaa** » 06 Dec 2008, 11:27

all sounding very good

not quite sure the cotton mill blues is 'up my street' but interesting nevertheless....

am now thinking of getting some kind of digital recorder myself but am torn as to what to look at... would welcome feedback on machines such as the zoom H4 and H2, the Edirol R09 and the Sony PCM D50 (which I think may be a bit out of my price range right about now!)

Cheers,

crispin · Post by **crispin** » 06 Dec 2008, 13:39

Genaa...
It depends a bit on what you want to record ... if you ask the experts - they will start talking of using stand alone microphones + preamps etc. I wanted a recorder that was self contained - with internal microphones of sufficient quality that I would not be disappointed in a year or two ... so after studying I was all set to get the Edirol R09HR - until I listened to the recordings of the wind instruments at http://www.wingfieldaudio.com/portable- ... mples.html

To me the Edirol was far too strong in the bass and lacked clarity in the treble.... but of course this is very subjective.

Eventually I bought the Sony D50... and one aspect that is different about this machine is that the built-in microphones are uni-directional (rather than omni-directional found on all the others). I believe that this will allow me to capture a better stereo image when there are multiple instruments involved.....

If my budget did not reach to the Sony D50 - I would probably look hard at the Tascam DR1

ennjaydee · Post by **ennjaydee** » 07 Dec 2008, 23:04

Crispin. I look forward to making an audio sample of utmost crystal clarity. I'm currently looking at recording options and am interested in your digital recorder comments. How does the D50 actually perform and did you consider any options using external mics? Naturally I don't want to end up with anything too woolly or compressed:lol: Such is the digital tendancy!

crispin · Post by **crispin** » 07 Dec 2008, 23:35

ennjaydee...

I really encourage you to listen to the Wingfield recordings at the link I gave above. It really also depends exactly on what your requirements are: If you want to record just your piano - then I would suspect that external microphones - preamps - some recorder will get you the best possible result. I am not expert enough to guide you which microphone plus preamp is best for a piano... there is a whole new world of 'tapers' out there who discuss things endlessly...

I wanted a recorder that I could carry around - that could do a good job when more than one instrument is involved and could create a stereo image.

Regarding compression - I believe that most of these recorders nowadays are linear and can record in 24 bits ... given this I do not see any reason why the recordings should be compressed.

I think the Sony D50 will suit my needs for many years to come - although I found the Zoom H4 recordings of his Sauter quite excellent - no sounds of woolliness to my ears at least.

Whatever you do - please keep us informed on what you choose to buy...

ennjaydee · Post by **ennjaydee** » 08 Dec 2008, 00:42

Looking to record mainly piano, but also sax and vocal in high quality audio. All three different in terms of mic characteristic plus care needed for SPL's esp with sax. Was looking at USB mixer studios, but not convinced they're up to the job - earth loop hum issues and lacking quality reported. Needs more research to tempt my cash. All this slightly off track for this thread ... so back to that wonderfully rich, clear pure and balanced ...

... Bluthner A. Not a strand of cotton wool evident! You'll just have to imagine it for now, Crispin, sorry!

Victoria · Post by **Victoria** » 04 Jun 2010, 07:59

Hello,

Nice Sharing.
No other acoustic instrument can match the piano's expressive range, and no electric instrument can match its mystery....

Regards
Victoria Heden
Magic Sing along Karaoke

sunan · Post by **sunan** » 07 Jun 2010, 10:22

Recently purchased YAMAHA YU118DN found foot pedal back when there are a number of bomb alt piano sound like a resonance because it is the voice of Buzz is not the bombers do not know how to solve it does not matter

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