Help with turns

Moonlight · Post by **Moonlight** » 06 Nov 2008, 21:10

Hey people,

Could anyone tell me how to play the turn in Chopin's Prelude 4 Op 28 in bar 17? I have never played a piece with one of those ornaments in before so have no idea about them.

not even my music theory book can seem to explain it in plain English

.

The piece I'm talking about can be found on this site:

http://www.chopinmusic.net/en/works/preludes/

go to the bottom of the site to click on the prelude I'm talking about...

Thanks!

Moonlight · Post by **Moonlight** » 07 Nov 2008, 19:46

I'm shocked! This forum is teaming with music teachers and still no answer for me!

I'm soooo addicted to that piece at the moment but can only play up to bar 16...

maybe because I forgot to say please I did say thanks though.

Ok please! help me.

Post by **Feg** » 07 Nov 2008, 20:42

I'm not a music teacher but played that particular Prelude in my youth! If memory serves, the turn is played as the note above, the note, the note below, the note - the bit in bold takes up the space of a quaver. However, I suspect that it will all depend on which edition you are playing from how the turn is notated.

Do you have a recording of the Prelude to which to refer?

Why are you only playing up to bar 16? You could play the whole piece in its entirety minus the ornamentation meantime

Fiona

Moonlight · Post by **Moonlight** » 07 Nov 2008, 22:54

I could play it without the ornament I guess, I just like the piece to sound whole...

I don't have a recording of it, but if you go on the link; and scroll down the webpage theres a little box with the opus and number of the piece. click on it and you can choose the prelude I'm talking about and you can see the score for it.

markymark · Post by **markymark** » 08 Nov 2008, 19:27

Moonlight wrote:I'm shocked! This forum is teaming with music teachers and still no answer for me!

I'm soooo addicted to that piece at the moment but can only play up to bar 16...

maybe because I forgot to say please I did say thanks though.

Ok please! help me.

Some of us are also very busy music teachers too, so there!:P

In normal circumstances, as Feg says, you would play the upper auxiliary note, followed by the principal note, followed by the lower auxiliary note then back to the principal note before moving on.

It's kind of hard to explain in words but when you get to the turn in bar 16, you play through the B-A# and then come to the crochet on A# with the turn in between the A# and the G'. When you get to the A# (crochet) hold it for half a beat before fitting in [B, A#, A, A#] in the remaining half beat of that crochet before rising to the G'.

Others may say that it is like playing three triplet semi-quavers followed by an ordinary semi-quaver. Sometimes turns are a bit like fitting notes in within the time available and this is one example in point.

Having said that, the precise speed of turns is not as simple as I have explained. It is possible to adopt a tempo rubato in order to fit the notes. Mendelssohn's "Song Without Words" gives a good example of this. Bach's use of turns often makes you stop and think and if I remember rightly, was it Haydn that almost created his own type of turn but never really explained how he wanted it played? It's still a mystery today as to what he really meant!

Moonlight · Post by **Moonlight** » 08 Nov 2008, 22:08

Hey Marky ( good old reliable Marky!

)

Thanks for the relpy, I try it out next time I play.

Thanks for that guys!

markymark · Post by **markymark** » 08 Nov 2008, 22:47

Also, you will see the double sharp sign ( x ) which means that the third note in the turn should be double-sharped.

In other words, we are thinking that the turn is A# B A# Gx A#, which I have simplified into B, A#, A, A#.

Post by **Gill the Piano** » 09 Nov 2008, 15:03

I bet there's a recording of it on YouTube somewhere that you could watch, Moonlight...and I've been busy at the local Music Festivals and I'm NOT a teacher so you can't whinge at me either!

Moonlight · Post by **Moonlight** » 10 Nov 2008, 14:18

Gill the Piano wrote: I'm NOT a teacher so you can't whinge at me either!

* folds arms defiantly, and mutters under her breath*
I wasn't whingeing...

Anyway both Feg's and Mark's replies made loads of scense, when I went and tried it out. I did have an idea of how it sounded from a recording and had the right idea about it from that. I just wanted to know roughly what that turn wants you to do etc.

Its now up to me to try and do my best with bar 17, the difficulty of the piece increases quite sharply ( in my opinion ) at about bar 17 and 18, possibly because in the cange in tempo, and then theres that octave and those chords OMG!

.

I will just need to slow it right down, and do as marky says about the rubato thing. That piece is played with quite a lot of rubato anyway.