Hi again
My piano tuner has indicated I would be wise to replace the old ivory keys on my 1919 John Brinsmead and Sons upright piano with new plastic ones.
I am in two minds about this...I am not sure sparkling white keys would look right on such an old instrument.
As well as being a tuner he is also a piano restorer...and cynical person that I am, I have to wonder if he is drumming up business.
Although I love the piano, I am realistic and know it is not worth spending big money on. The new keyboard would cost me $250 AUD.
But he also says there is a problem with the action, with some tapes? (elastic band type things) that will need replacing in time...another $250 AUD. He says if I had this done he would also get rid of grooves in the hammers at the same time.
Am I right in thinking this latter problem should be taken care of before I consider a new keyboard?.
He said also that the lower row of tuning pins on the top end of the piano were a bit loose and this could indicate a crack. What are the ramifications if indeed there is a crack.
Your advice on this and on the pros and cons of the keyboard would be welcome.
replacing keyboard
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Barrie Heaton
- Site Admin
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- Location: Lanc's
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In order of importance
The tunings pins: if they are loos in a line that can indicate a split wrest plank (tuning block) reping as it is would not be a good idea, this will open the crack wider. Replacing the wrest plank would be the correct way of fixing it but we just don’t do that on uprights because of cost involved, the other options are:
Removing all the pins in the affected area filling the holes with epoxy resin and re-drilling the holes and repining (makes the tuning pins very jumpy when tuning )
Apply a chemical fix this ca be CA glue or pintite this is done with the pins in
Replacing the tapes and re-facing the hammers are only worth doing if the tuning pin problem is fixed, re-facing the hammers will improve the tone however, it will make the piano brighter so you may need it toning down, changing the tapes will have to be done I would ask the tuner what the balance hammer leathers are like as well as the cushion felts (balance hammer you may call them Catchers in AU they do in the US )
Ivories this is purely cosmetic it will not make the piano play or sound better were as the above will. However, some players regret changing to plastic as there finger sweat more and your fingers don’t grip as will on plastic as ivory you can bleach and repair ivory I always try to save ivory if I can
Barrie,
The tunings pins: if they are loos in a line that can indicate a split wrest plank (tuning block) reping as it is would not be a good idea, this will open the crack wider. Replacing the wrest plank would be the correct way of fixing it but we just don’t do that on uprights because of cost involved, the other options are:
Removing all the pins in the affected area filling the holes with epoxy resin and re-drilling the holes and repining (makes the tuning pins very jumpy when tuning )
Apply a chemical fix this ca be CA glue or pintite this is done with the pins in
Replacing the tapes and re-facing the hammers are only worth doing if the tuning pin problem is fixed, re-facing the hammers will improve the tone however, it will make the piano brighter so you may need it toning down, changing the tapes will have to be done I would ask the tuner what the balance hammer leathers are like as well as the cushion felts (balance hammer you may call them Catchers in AU they do in the US )
Ivories this is purely cosmetic it will not make the piano play or sound better were as the above will. However, some players regret changing to plastic as there finger sweat more and your fingers don’t grip as will on plastic as ivory you can bleach and repair ivory I always try to save ivory if I can
Barrie,
Barrie Heaton
Web Master UK Piano Page
Web Master UK Piano Page
tuning pins
Thank you once again for your prompt and valuable advice.
Yes the loose tuning pins are in a line..about 5 at the top end of the keyboard.
These keys were able to be tuned this time, but the tuner said the tune may not hold for a full 12 months.
As my expertise (or lack of it) as a player is not very advanced I rarely (if ever) venture to that part of the keyboard, so would I be right in assuming things would be better left alone, or is there risk that if indeed the tuning block is split, it could spread further.
My tuner did say that the pins could be replaced with larger ones, but doing that could lead to problems with tuning later on.
I am sorry to be a pest, but I am confused on your reply regarding the tapes and hammers.
You say they are only worth doing if the tuning pin problem is fixed, but then go on to say later in your reply that changing the tapes will have to be done.
I have printed out the questions you have suggested I ask my tuner about the balance hammer leathers and the cushion felts.
As far as the ivories are concerned...I will take your advice and keep them.
Again thank you so much for your valuable assistance.
Yes the loose tuning pins are in a line..about 5 at the top end of the keyboard.
These keys were able to be tuned this time, but the tuner said the tune may not hold for a full 12 months.
As my expertise (or lack of it) as a player is not very advanced I rarely (if ever) venture to that part of the keyboard, so would I be right in assuming things would be better left alone, or is there risk that if indeed the tuning block is split, it could spread further.
My tuner did say that the pins could be replaced with larger ones, but doing that could lead to problems with tuning later on.
I am sorry to be a pest, but I am confused on your reply regarding the tapes and hammers.
You say they are only worth doing if the tuning pin problem is fixed, but then go on to say later in your reply that changing the tapes will have to be done.
I have printed out the questions you have suggested I ask my tuner about the balance hammer leathers and the cushion felts.
As far as the ivories are concerned...I will take your advice and keep them.
Again thank you so much for your valuable assistance.
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Barrie Heaton
- Site Admin
- Posts: 3651
- Joined: 30 May 2003, 20:42
- Location: Lanc's
- Contact:
Sorry for the confusion over the tapes depending how your tuner re faces hammers determines the life of the tapes if he/she removes the hammers then the tapes will have to be replaced as they normally perish when they are undone, if the tuners is taking off the hammers then it is worth looking at the other items as well leather and cushions
Tuning pins since we have now confirmed that the pins are loos in a line this indicates a split, putting a larger size pin in will only open the split more and effect more pins. Since you are not planning to use the top till later on, I would use the chemical fix CA glue (supper Glue) 5g bottle will do about 30 pins the piano is better on it’s back when applying but can be done upright if the tuner puts too much on and sets the pin hard then a small tap in will free the pin.
The way it works is similar to pintite the CA glue runs down the inside of the pin soaks into the wood and makes it swell up then it sets hard making the pin grip again. The room must be well ventilated when using CA glue and you should avoid inhaling the fumes
Barrie,
Tuning pins since we have now confirmed that the pins are loos in a line this indicates a split, putting a larger size pin in will only open the split more and effect more pins. Since you are not planning to use the top till later on, I would use the chemical fix CA glue (supper Glue) 5g bottle will do about 30 pins the piano is better on it’s back when applying but can be done upright if the tuner puts too much on and sets the pin hard then a small tap in will free the pin.
The way it works is similar to pintite the CA glue runs down the inside of the pin soaks into the wood and makes it swell up then it sets hard making the pin grip again. The room must be well ventilated when using CA glue and you should avoid inhaling the fumes
Barrie,
Barrie Heaton
Web Master UK Piano Page
Web Master UK Piano Page
tuning pins
Once again my grateful thanks to you....for clarifying things for me.
I am beginning to understand a little of what goes inside a piano now, something I probably should have known a long time ago but never gave any thought to.
The information I am gaining from this forum is wonderful and I am enjoying reading posts on all manner of things relating to pianos.
I have become a nightly visitor to the forum and I am sure I am not the only one who visits regularly.
Thanks again to you wonderful people for sharing your expertise with us.
I am beginning to understand a little of what goes inside a piano now, something I probably should have known a long time ago but never gave any thought to.
The information I am gaining from this forum is wonderful and I am enjoying reading posts on all manner of things relating to pianos.
I have become a nightly visitor to the forum and I am sure I am not the only one who visits regularly.
Thanks again to you wonderful people for sharing your expertise with us.
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Gill the Piano
- Moderator
- Posts: 4032
- Joined: 25 Oct 2003, 19:39
- Location: Thames Valley
Are the ivory keys actually chipped, or bits missing? Why does the tuner suggest replacement? I have to say that new plastic keys on an old piano often look like a new set of gnashers in the face of a very old gentleman, and Barrie's right about the feel; ivory absorbs sweat - sorry, perspiration!- far better than plastic. I would be inclined to ask for a quote on replacing any damaged ivory, rather than ripping the lot off in favour of plastic. But then I'm old-fashioned!
replacing keyboard
Thanks for your input Gill. I agree...I too am old fashioned and prefer the look of the ivory on the old pianos..a sparkling white keyboard would look out of place.
A couple of the keys have tiny chips on the edge, and one has a small crack on the top.
The tuner did suggest that I may injure a finger on the chipped keys, but I really don't think that is likely to happen.
I have just spent several weeks trying to find a piano stool that would suit the piano (the chap I bought the piano from didn't have the stool). Again I wanted to find something that suited the piano... a brand new stool would not have been right. Today I had success....found the perfect stool..timber and colour matched perfectly.
A couple of the keys have tiny chips on the edge, and one has a small crack on the top.
The tuner did suggest that I may injure a finger on the chipped keys, but I really don't think that is likely to happen.
I have just spent several weeks trying to find a piano stool that would suit the piano (the chap I bought the piano from didn't have the stool). Again I wanted to find something that suited the piano... a brand new stool would not have been right. Today I had success....found the perfect stool..timber and colour matched perfectly.
Re: replacing keyboard
This works well on chiped keysGeminoz wrote:A couple of the keys have tiny chips on the edge, and one has a small crack on the top.
http://www.acrylikey.co.uk/