I've had my piano tuned !

David B · Post by **David B** » 03 Oct 2008, 09:32

My rebuilt Bluthner concert grand had its second in situ tuning yesterday.

It was a beautiful piano before; now its amazing! The restorer and the tuner did say that it would steadily improve through the first few tunings, though I was a bit skeptical of this claim. As long as the piano was in tune, it couldn't get better, right? Clearly wrong.

Why is that?

Brumtuner · Post by **Brumtuner** » 03 Oct 2008, 12:42

"As long as the piano was in tune, it couldn't get better, right? "

Right.

Apart from the hammer felts 'settling in' which will brighten the tone, your piano is now deteriorating again.

Post by **Gill the Piano** » 03 Oct 2008, 18:05

Oh, Brumtuner!! Don't widdle on his strawberries; he's in Love!!

joseph · Post by **joseph** » 03 Oct 2008, 20:10

thats the thing about pianos - they deteriorate from new. A bit like us! Unlike us they can get new soundboards and actions after 75 years and be like new again. We just croak. Enjoy your piano, I LOVE these old Bluthner concert grands, theres one in the Cathedral in Dundee where I'm playing. The action is knackered (roller) and its way past its best, but the tone is still beautiful!

David B · Post by **David B** » 04 Oct 2008, 22:03

As the yanks might say "what's with you guys?"

We hear endless discussion here about which new piano is less cheaply put together than the next, and how the British piano industry was pants/killed by the foreigners.

What about a new factory, rebuilding and adapting old pianos? There is no shortage of suitable raw material out there; the frame after all must be the most expensive part, and the most durable. I've got the land, who has the time/expertise/balls to make pianos?

Brumtuner · Post by **Brumtuner** » 05 Oct 2008, 08:50

Oh, awlright, I'll have a go then.

Pm me when the footings are down.

joseph · Post by **joseph** » 05 Oct 2008, 09:21

yeah, why isn't there a world class concert grand piano from the UK? I mean current production models.

mdw · Post by **mdw** » 05 Oct 2008, 10:10

Because the numbers of grands sold in the UK new every year is tiny and you all want to buy YAMAHA. The sheep mentality means that nobody wants to try anything different so you would have to be barking mad to want to set up to make a new concert grand piano in the UK. My guess is that less than 100 concert grands ( all makes added together) are sold in the UK every year and probably a lot less than that. Any one got acurate figures?

Openwood · Post by **Openwood** » 05 Oct 2008, 13:13

you all want to buy YAMAHA. The sheep mentality means that nobody wants to try anything different

That's one way of looking at it but I don't think it tells the whole story. My little woolly teacher friends and I have tried various different makes of piano (particularly Kemble, as we wanted to support the British piano industry) because, believe me, teachers also suffer from 'not another bloody Yamaha' syndrome.

We found the Kemble tone to be underpowered and lacking depth for larger music rooms/school halls when compared to the Great Satan Y*m*h* and his smirking sidekick Lord K*wa*. Many folk will probably disagree, but that's subjectivity for you. If I don't like the sound, I ain't gonna buy it, even if the case is made of prime roast beef, it's designed in the shape of a London bus and it's got a pearly king and queen waving from the top deck.

Some years ago we got a Bluthner grand specifically because we wanted to avoid getting 'yet another Yamaha' even if it meant surrendering our money to ze chermans. Even with a very generous discount it cost a lot more than an equivalent size (or larger) Yam and frankly it turned out to be a bigger disappointment than Gordon Brown. Eventually we exchanged it for, well, I hardly need to say...........

David B · Post by **David B** » 05 Oct 2008, 17:24

OK, OK. I'm not sure if the way that this discussion is progressing is validating my hunch or not (genuine open mind here

).

Is my Bluthner (originally built in Leipzig in C 1920, rebuilt in Poland/Kent 2008) really a "Bluthner" at all? Or is it a new piano in an old case? By the way, the music desk is another eBay find (art noveau, not Bluthner but rather nice - 15 quid) and the legs are modern (previous ones had been cut down to take an A-frame). The whole thing, purchase, rebuild and delivery cost considerably less than a new, heavily discounted Yammy C7. And mine has ivory and ebony keys, not those weird things on the C7.

So what is a genuine piano? Or a British piano? In another thread Broadwood were shot down in flames as being a limited production of assembled parts. Was there ever a time when a piano was made entirely in the same factory? Did the plethora of "London" piano builders 100 years ago all have foundries out the back making iron harps?

Am I rambling? Or are we all too British for our own good?

Openwood · Post by **Openwood** » 05 Oct 2008, 17:31

And mine has ivory and ebony keys, not those weird things on the C7.

Yeah, those odd-shaped black keys are not at all appealling, visually or practically. I wonder if it's possible to get them replaced with conventional ones?

I LOVE these old Bluthner concert grands

Amen to that.

markymark · Post by **markymark** » 05 Oct 2008, 19:41

Sheep mentality?
Huh! When I bought my P121N, I went in with the plan not to buy a Yamaha acousitc 'cos I tend to buy into their digital/stage pianos which are the best going at present. Anyway, I tried Chapells, a Kawai K series (which was good too!), Bechsteins but Yamaha were inevitably the best for sound quality. Having said that, I have been on the forum recently asking how the tone can be mellowed slightly. It seems to have gotten even brighter and louder after its first year.

Openwood is absolutely right! If you don't like the sound, then you're not going to buy it, even though you know that your local piano supplier will probably take a bite out of his service counter after you leave!

joseph · Post by **joseph** » 06 Oct 2008, 23:26

Yamahas sell well because they're good pianos. Simple as that. They have hit on a formula. There are other pianos I prefer - sorry your Bluthner turned out to be a turkey mr openwood, it happens. One of the most beautiful pianos I played was a new Bluthner model 4. One of the worst was the same model from another batch if you like.

I was just wondering why in the UK there isn't a concert grand being made. Australia have some, Italy have some, France have one, America and Germany have several. Surely the Brits can come up with something? Or would it be so expensive that nobody would buy it?

PianoGuy · Post by **PianoGuy** » 06 Oct 2008, 23:31

joseph wrote: I was just wondering why in the UK there isn't a concert grand being made.

Because Thatcher sold off our manufacturing industry?

mdw · Post by **mdw** » 07 Oct 2008, 07:56

And we all gladly buy from who ever is the the lowest price.

A440 · Post by **A440** » 07 Oct 2008, 09:12

David B wrote:OK, OK. I'm not sure if the way that this discussion is progressing is validating my hunch or not (genuine open mind here ).

Is my Bluthner (originally built in Leipzig in C 1920, rebuilt in Poland/Kent 2008) really a "Bluthner" at all?

No, not really...
But you can buy a new Bluthner in an old Bluthner case from Bluthner's in London. Despite the posh address the prices are not inflated.
You can buy a 'restored ' Bluthner from anywhere. They actually refit a new Bluthner soundboard, pinblock and action into the old rim. You are getting a real new Bluthner at half the price of a new (modern) one (and they look much prettier).
Not all of them sound like modern pianos and the tone is much more varied from piano to piano.
But it's going on in jolly old England and is piano rebuilding of the highest integrity available.

athomik · Post by **athomik** » 07 Oct 2008, 09:31

David B wrote:So what is a genuine piano? Or a British piano?

The casework. Everything else is optional.

PianoGuy · Post by **PianoGuy** » 07 Oct 2008, 09:36

A440 wrote: But you can buy a new Bluthner in an old Bluthner case from Bluthner's in London. Despite the posh address the prices are not inflated.

Agreed, but I have a suspicion that whereas once upon a time Blüthner's had their own techs working in West London, the pianos now get soundboard replacements done in Poland too. Why do I think this? Firstly the price, and secondly the tie up with Blüthner Leipzig with Poland to build the late unlamented Irmler Europe series. So arguably DavidB's Richard Dainized* Blüthner and a Blüthner-Londonized* Blüthner could have a similar heritage - except on paper of course.

*I've been listening to too many news reports where shittyoldloans get muddled together, sold on as toxic waste and knacker up banks. The word here is 'securitized'. No reflection on the quality of Mr Dain's or Blüthner's work. I just liked the word!

joseph · Post by **joseph** » 07 Oct 2008, 19:55

Bluthner in London use Colin Leverett's company piano restorations ltd in High Wycome, an they replace the soundboards in that factory as far as I'm aware. Artur Pizarro just had his Estonia concert grand rebuilt with a new soundboard (don't ask) and his Bechstein London Baby Grand rebuilt with a new soundboard (again, don't ask

) and he had his steinway D (thats more like it) serviced by them but didn't have the soundboard replaced.

He knows he spent more on the Bechstein than it would ever be worth, but he is known amongst pianists as the RSPCP! He also LOVES restored pianos as a hobby, but always performs on new ones.

Post by **Barrie Heaton** » 07 Oct 2008, 20:37

Says on his website soundboard replacement is a flash site so I can put a direct link to the page with the info

Barrie,

I see the page order gremlin is back

PianoGuy · Post by **PianoGuy** » 07 Oct 2008, 20:45

joseph wrote:Bluthner in London use Colin Leverett's company piano restorations ltd in High Wycome, an they replace the soundboards in that factory as far as I'm aware. Artur Pizarro just had his Estonia concert grand rebuilt with a new soundboard (don't ask) and his Bechstein London Baby Grand rebuilt with a new soundboard (again, don't ask ) and he had his steinway D (thats more like it) serviced by them but didn't have the soundboard replaced.

I hope they do still use Colin. He's the don.

Colin used to head up Blüthner's workshops in Perivale, but I'm not sure his company does all of their restorations. If they do, then no worries about quality. I still have my suspicions about the proximity of Leipzig and Poland though.

joseph · Post by **joseph** » 07 Oct 2008, 21:59

I remember that the London showroom had one Bluthner style 8 that was rebuilt for a customer who expressly wished it to be done in the Leipzig factory. It was restored with a new board, pinblock, installed with the modern Renner action and had a modern damping system installed (replaced the old Bluthner heads i mean) and it sounded exactly like a brand new Bluthner model 6. It was beautiful, but not a style 8 anymore! This rebuild cost £16000 5 years ago. It was definately done in the Leipzig factory, not poland.

Colin Leverett tends to make the pianos sound like they did when they were new, so although its a total rebuild, it sounds like a restoration if you get my drift. He doesn't replace the damper heads because he feels thats a characteristic sound of the old Bluthner (I think it has so many magical possibilities, particularly with Beethoven), and he would rather rebuild a patent action if thats what the instrument had in the first place, although if you prefer he will put a modern roller action in it for you.

If only I had the money I'd be first in line to get my piano rebuilt, and it would be top notch!

pianotechman · Post by **pianotechman** » 15 Oct 2008, 09:11

I can assure you all that Colin is alive and well, and most certainly fits his own soundboards! We started puting in new boards when in Perivale in about 1983 if my memory serves my well.

levie · Post by **levie** » 12 Dec 2008, 14:22

I can definitely reasure that Colin Leverett is perfectly ok and we do fit recondition all of the above mentioned showrooms recon work. Joseph, i don't know who you are but from your high regard of my father, you are more than welcome to visit the factory for a coffee and a chat anytime.