I am currently looking for a new grand piano to replace my wonderful, but very aged Bechstein V.
I was quite taken by the Kawai RX2 but was a bit disconcerted by quite a noticeable noise in the upper register, especially the octave above the C above middle C, which occurred on releasing the key as it returned up to the rest position. The dealer did not seem to be able to suggest any remedy for this. The action was otherwise pleasant to play.
Is this a problem anyone else has noticed on this model, or could it be peculiar to this particular piano?
Other makes I am currently considering are Petrof, Estonia and Boston. I would welcome any thoughts on these makes.
Clunking keys on Kawai RX2
Moderators: Feg, Gill the Piano, Melodytune
RX2 would be my choice too, although Bostons come out of the same factory and some people like the Steinway associations. Petrofs are total cr*p and I've not seen too many recent Estonias to comment. They have a good reputation in the States, but I have a slight mistrust of a nation who voted in a warmongering prat for a second term and bought Kimball spinets by the thousand.
Have you tried a Yamaha C2? Better than the lot of them in my book and the capability to beat the pants off your shortlist, but you need to find a dealer who will prepare one with care.
Sounds as though the hammer rest rail needs tightening. You have to question the competence of a dealership that puts one in that state on the shop floor unless it was awaiting preparation. Mind you, you have to question the taste and sanity of a dealer who bothers to stock Petrof at all.
Have you tried a Yamaha C2? Better than the lot of them in my book and the capability to beat the pants off your shortlist, but you need to find a dealer who will prepare one with care.
Sounds as though the hammer rest rail needs tightening. You have to question the competence of a dealership that puts one in that state on the shop floor unless it was awaiting preparation. Mind you, you have to question the taste and sanity of a dealer who bothers to stock Petrof at all.
I suppose as a tech you see lots of joannas and some are better set up than others. I personaly dont rate Bostons, out of the 7 or 8 grands I tune I would say 4 are rubish straight from the London dealer. The Kawais are much better but from the same maker ie Kawai. Now that may be because the Bostons have designed by Steinway spashed all over them and so we expect them to be top knotch. Bit like the Yam B range. If you think of them as a cheepy piano they work. If you think of them as a Yamaha they are a bit lame. Had the market not been flodded with Chinese pianos and S/H Yams would Yamaha have made the B range?
Re the Petrofs if could be that different areas of the world will have different importers and different prep standards before they get to the dealer. And as above where in the price range of all pianos is it sold. Is it classed as an exotic european make or perhaps as we may see it as a old iron curtain brand trying to improve .
Just my own view !!
Re the Petrofs if could be that different areas of the world will have different importers and different prep standards before they get to the dealer. And as above where in the price range of all pianos is it sold. Is it classed as an exotic european make or perhaps as we may see it as a old iron curtain brand trying to improve .
Just my own view !!
I heard they're about to send out billions of spinets from the central reserve in a desperate attempt to shore up the economy. Can't see how sub-prime keyboards are going to help, but who knows...I have a slight mistrust of a nation who voted in a warmongering prat for a second term and bought Kimball spinets by the thousand.
"Each day grow older, and learn something new."
Solon (c. 630 - c. 500 B.C.), Greek Statesman and Reformer
Solon (c. 630 - c. 500 B.C.), Greek Statesman and Reformer
Dear PG
Can you elaborate on this statement:
Can you elaborate on this statement:
On our piano hunt we tried out some Petrof and Rosler uprights ... and found them OK. The Rosler's especially seemed to have a low price ... I am now glad that we did not go down this route - since you have made this comment... but if you can elaborate it would certainly help (well let us say: maybe help) us non-experts to become more observant judges of the quality or otherwise of pianos.Petrofs are total cr*p
I have now played the Petrof PIII (6'4''). Beautiful sound to my ear, very nice touch, much preferred it to new Bechstein A 6'3'' in same showroom.
Would go for it unhesitatingly if it wasn't for all the extremely negative views of the experts.
Another problem is that this model seems to have been discontinued and replaced by P194 Storm which seems to have quite a few new features eg Duplex scaling. It appears that Petrof are introducing significant improvements in their range. I wonder if the severe criticism relates mainly to older models?
Would go for it unhesitatingly if it wasn't for all the extremely negative views of the experts.
Another problem is that this model seems to have been discontinued and replaced by P194 Storm which seems to have quite a few new features eg Duplex scaling. It appears that Petrof are introducing significant improvements in their range. I wonder if the severe criticism relates mainly to older models?
Because he's a stupid Yank who doesn't know better?DOCL wrote: Why does Larry Fine rate them higher than Kawais?
DOCL
Who knows?
Seriously though, in the USA, European anythings (cars, stereos, fashion items, pianos etc) have a cachet over and above domestic and 'Asian' goods which are almost too familiar. If a Petrof is perfectly set-up and painstakingly regulated it's capable of decent results. Trouble is, out of the box they are usually appalling.
My complaint with them is that they are (or certainly were when I last tuned a brand new one less than two tears ago) simply rehashed old Communist-era designs with only marginally better build than in the Iron Curtain days. Then they were the best by far of these mostly grim old designs, now there is no excuse for them. I have not admittedly seen the latest models; my enthusiam has not been inspired, but maybe they have had some new ideas....
As is always the case, go for the piano that *you* like. You're the one buying. I have many customers who are totally happy with their Petrofs and Weinbachs, and I'm just as happy to take their money when I tune them.
I have not seen this model. This may be something to do with the fact that the last Petrofs that were supplied by my local dealers were so troublesome even they've decided not to stock any more. Maybe if they were exhibited at the recent Piano Fair and impressed them they will be trying a few.DOCL wrote: Another problem is that this model seems to have been discontinued and replaced by P194 Storm which seems to have quite a few new features eg Duplex scaling. It appears that Petrof are introducing significant improvements in their range. I wonder if the severe criticism relates mainly to older models?
Problems with the last batch included (the usual)problems with the Detoa action of the Upright (110cm?) model leading to the need for the whole thing to be recentred less than a year into its service life. The dealer actually did this in his own workshop. One grand had a treble strike line so badly set-up that it was impossible to adjust. Either the top few hammers would foul the edge of the soundboard or keys would foul the rear of the keyslip. Adjustment of the keyslip was impossible because it was bolted in place, so the solution was to plane a couple of mm off the back of it; not easy on a polyester finish, nor should such drastic action be necessary. The only example that has been totally trouble free was a white one which few sane adults would have chosen for reasons of taste. Furthermore, no two supposedly identical pianos bore much resemblance to each other indicating lax quality control or slack production methods.
He does seem to have a dim view of Yamaha in particular.in the USA, European anythings (cars, stereos, fashion items, pianos etc) have a cachet over and above domestic and 'Asian' goods which are almost too familiar.
"Each day grow older, and learn something new."
Solon (c. 630 - c. 500 B.C.), Greek Statesman and Reformer
Solon (c. 630 - c. 500 B.C.), Greek Statesman and Reformer
Dear PG
The Petrofs and Rosslers that we found and judged to be fine were at a dealer where 'dealers prep' was taken to some extraordinary degree. About 1/3 of the upright pianos were in some kind disassembly ... the dealer himself obviously loved his pianos and was taking great care to regulate each and every one. He had two identical Grotian-Steinweg upright pianos where one had a much heavier touch than the other, since one of his customers wanted a heavier or lighter touch (I forget which) - thus he had adjusted the piano accordingly. So maybe a Petrof from this guy would be OK - or maybe not
Maybe if I visit him again I will just find him stocking the Sauters and Grotians 
Another tidbit is that when our tuner came to tune our new Bechstein Academy 124 ... he said that tuning the Bechstein was a joy to him compared to tuning our old Rosler(Petrof) made in the soviet era. I thought that he meant that since the Bechstein had such a beautiful singing tone that tuning can make a world of difference and one can hear the effect of his work... but maybe he also had reservations about this Soviet style piano.
Thanks for all the education you offer us
The Petrofs and Rosslers that we found and judged to be fine were at a dealer where 'dealers prep' was taken to some extraordinary degree. About 1/3 of the upright pianos were in some kind disassembly ... the dealer himself obviously loved his pianos and was taking great care to regulate each and every one. He had two identical Grotian-Steinweg upright pianos where one had a much heavier touch than the other, since one of his customers wanted a heavier or lighter touch (I forget which) - thus he had adjusted the piano accordingly. So maybe a Petrof from this guy would be OK - or maybe not
Maybe if I visit him again I will just find him stocking the Sauters and Grotians Another tidbit is that when our tuner came to tune our new Bechstein Academy 124 ... he said that tuning the Bechstein was a joy to him compared to tuning our old Rosler(Petrof) made in the soviet era. I thought that he meant that since the Bechstein had such a beautiful singing tone that tuning can make a world of difference and one can hear the effect of his work... but maybe he also had reservations about this Soviet style piano.
Thanks for all the education you offer us
Er, yes I was.mdw wrote:I think hes refering to the US not Estonia and the fact that although they ( Estonias) may be rated in the US its not nessesarily a good recomendation for the rest of the world. The US also rate Kimballs and Baldwins which are grim when seen over here.
I don't think Kimball sold thousands of pianos to the Estonians either!
Why thank you!crispin wrote:Dear PG
Another tidbit is that when our tuner came to tune our new Bechstein Academy 124 ... he said that tuning the Bechstein was a joy to him compared to tuning our old Rosler(Petrof) made in the soviet era. I thought that he meant that since the Bechstein had such a beautiful singing tone that tuning can make a world of difference and one can hear the effect of his work... but maybe he also had reservations about this Soviet style piano.
Thanks for all the education you offer us
Tongue-in-cheek as some of it is, I try to base my advice on fact or experience!