Specifying a UK Factory!

Geelan · Post by **Geelan** » 16 Sep 2008, 21:31

I'm in the market for an upright acoustic piano.
At the moment, I'm only learning to play using a keyboard - I can almost hear the purists sigh, but, believe me, I am converted.
I am looking for something along the lines of the Yamaha P121N, U1, Kawai K5 or a Kemble equivalent - suggestions please.
Having gained much from the info available on this forum, I have been in touch with a half dozen or so potential suppliers.
With regard to used pianos, I am amazed by their reticence and/or ignorance as to the history/origin of units they have on offer. Most claim their units have been reconditioned to different extents. But when asked how they can order parts for a piano, the origin of which they clearly don't know, they claim such parts are standard and interchangable between makes and models.
From what I've read, my impression is quite the opposite. I suspect it is a case of, "we'll make it fit anyway".
The prices being asked, for those unknowns - most probably, grey imports - are not that terribly far removed from a new unit ie, 4-5K more for something new over a thirty year old.
So, I'll probably opt for something new.
I would prefer to buy something wholly manufactured in Europe but my impressions are that individual components, such as the action, may be sourced elsewhere ie, China, Indonesia, Poland etc, and some sources provide better quality components than others.
I've seen references here to Kemble of Milton Keanes, now in partnership with Yamaha. They appear to have an excellent reputation. Am I right in thinking Kemble and Yamaha share Kemble's UK factory and Kawai also have one of their own in the UK?
Given that the UK is next door to me, shouldn't it be possible to specify a piano from a UK factory? I haven't come across an agent here for either Kemble or Kawai. The only Kawai units I've been offered are used ones and Kemble doesn't appear on the inventories of any of the dealers I've contacted.
Though it's not a very high-end instrument I'm looking for, I only want to buy once and with the assurance I have the best quality.
So, after the above cynical rant - what is my point?
I'm looking for some advice to help me ensure my purchase will be from a UK or other reputable factory - and not from some Eastern manufacturing plant which may have compromised on the build or where the build is for a non-european market. Many thanks in anticipation!

athomik · Post by **athomik** » 17 Sep 2008, 09:47

The Yamaha 'P' series (and probably the Radius) are produced by Kembles in Milton Keynes. Foreign parts (if any) probably come from Japan. If you buy a Kemble piano, chances are that the parts are the same as in similar Yamaha models produced by them.

sussexpianos · Post by **sussexpianos** » 17 Sep 2008, 11:31

All Kawai pianos are built in Japan. Kemble are the only one in the UK building pianos. have you not contacted Kemble via their website to see where the dealers are?

Geelan · Post by **Geelan** » 18 Sep 2008, 22:23

Thanks to both of you for the advice - it has been very helpful.
The business which has the Kemble agency over here is a well-known and highly respected one - TG!
They have used Yamahas and new Kembles in stock. One of the Kimbles is a 121 Mozart edition, the website does not offer a model number for the other.
Which Kemble models would be considered the equivalents of both the Yamaha U1 and U3? Are there any significant technical differences, apart from warmth of tone, which set both makes apart?
Looks like my choice could come down to a new Kemble in the 6-7K bracket, or a used Yamaha U1 at 3.5K or a U3 around 4-5K - the ages of the Yamahas are not available from the website.
And, many thanks for your time and effort!

markymark · Post by **markymark** » 18 Sep 2008, 22:28

I remember that the Kemble Mozart was a limited edition piano from Kemble as an anniversary item. I've heard good reports about them but as to the technical side, some of the techies or dealer will have to elaborate on that point. I nearly bought a Mozart or Conservatoire myself I have to say.

PianoGuy · Post by **PianoGuy** » 19 Sep 2008, 00:23

sussexpianos wrote:All Kawai pianos are built in Japan.

No they're not. The K15-E is built in Indonesia with a Japanese action. A-prefix serial numbers are assembled in the USA using native casework and Japanese actions, but they're so foul, I for one am glad they don't come over here save for personal imports.

Kemble pianos and N-suffixed Yamahas (and those with an E-prefix to the serial number) are made in the UK to Yamaha designs using Japanese actions, but the soundboards are European and the strings are not the same as the ones in Japanese Yamahas. Casework designs of the latest Kemble ranges and the Radius range are British.

mdw · Post by **mdw** » 19 Sep 2008, 07:38

Didnt they import the casework for the smaller models as well.

sussexpianos · Post by **sussexpianos** » 19 Sep 2008, 08:57

The Motzart Kemble is a nice piano using different grade hammer felt. I think the soundboard woods are different as well. You also get a free Motzart Teddy!

David B · Post by **David B** » 19 Sep 2008, 10:35

[quote="sussexpianos"]Kemble are the only one in the UK building pianos. /quote]

What about Broadwood? There website makes the following statement "the Broadwood "Barless" Upright Piano is made in England"

sussexpianos · Post by **sussexpianos** » 19 Sep 2008, 17:25

Put together in the UK using European parts and its not large scale or any dealers in the UK, so I stand by my statement.

Post by **Barrie Heaton** » 19 Sep 2008, 20:37

sussexpianos wrote:Put together in the UK using European parts and its not large scale or any dealers in the UK, so I stand by my statement.

And.......

Poletti & Tuinman Makers of Left Hand Forte-Pianos

but again only to order I wonder if one day all pianos will be made that way... sorry sir we are waiting for some trees to grow

Barrie,

Geelan · Post by **Geelan** » 20 Sep 2008, 02:29

Well, after a 300 miles + round trip drive today, I have much lighter wallet and a new Kemble Mozart (Mahogany/Marquetry version).
For two of the most interesting and enjoyable hours I've had in a while, I got my hungry fingers on old and new uprights, grands and baby grands, in Steinways and Bosendorfers, Steinbergs and Steinhovens and a dozen others I can't remember. But the king of them all, for me, was the Fazioli 9' grand - Yup, some day... maybe!!!
I was really shocked by the brightness of one Yamaha baby grand - I wouldn't have taken it as a present. In comparison, the Mozart has a much more mellow tone and I am very satisified with my purchase.
The dealer/owner, also a trained piano technician and tuner, was exceptional - everything a dealer should be + some. If your in Ireland and thinking of buying - try David at Precision Pianos, Dundalk - you will not be disappointed!

PianoGuy · Post by **PianoGuy** » 20 Sep 2008, 07:17

Geelan wrote:Well, after a 300 miles + round trip drive today, I have much lighter wallet and a new Kemble Mozart (Mahogany/Marquetry version).

An excellent choice.

Pretty too.

PianoGuy · Post by **PianoGuy** » 20 Sep 2008, 07:53

sussexpianos wrote:Put together in the UK using European parts and its not large scale or any dealers in the UK, so I stand by my statement.

As opposed to Kemble?

Put together in the UK using Japanese and European parts (I suspect others as well) so no real difference apart from scale of production. Oh! Except the Kembles aren't even British scale or frame designs, they're Yamahas!

Not that I dislike Kembles, I love 'em, but they really are Yamahas in drag assembled in Milton Keynes, and we don't really have a true UK piano manufacturing industry, so let's not kid ourselves.

Support Kemble by all means, but for what it is. A foreign maker of high quality pianos on British soil giving much needed employment to the remains of the Industry. You wouldn't call Nissan and Honda British because they choose to make a few of their cars in the UK would you?

pianobrereton · Post by **pianobrereton** » 22 Sep 2008, 11:41

can't say i dissagree but !!!!!! it's a complicated story.Even at the height of British manufacuturing "foreign parts " were used as did foreigners use British parts. The wood itself came from exotic foreign places as did wire for strings and other parts at times . You could also say that the upright actions Yamaha uses, as are all actions in the world, to an English design by Robert Wornum and that all their pianos are built to foreign designs .Seeing as the piano was invented in Europe. I seem to remember that Rover used a few Honda and BMW engines but was still considered an English company. Also what about Rolls Royce they now fit BMW engines and are owned by them , but are considered quintessentially English as are Bentley (Volkswagen owned) Is Bosendorfer no longer Austrian because they are owned by Yamaha ?Bechstein was at one time owned by Baldwin of America , were they still German ? Its difficult and complicated. By the way ....Dr Alistair Laurence of Broadwood told me that they will be starting contruction of top quality conventional upright pianos in England soon . Perhaps that is the way forward ,small workshops producing quality pianos to order.