For years I've wanted to play the piano but it was never a realistic possibility until now. I've set myself up with a Yamaha DGX-620 Portable Grand keyboard and the Ivory Grand Piano Suite - the sounds are delicious!
Since self-teaching is the only option, I've bought the Grade 1-8 ABRSM booklets for direction and a few books with piano music. So far everything is going well.
I also use an electronic metronome which has been invaluable for the scales of Grade 1 ie, setting a crotchet = 60. However, the Arpeggios and Broken Chords in the Grade 1 booklet have a "dotted crotchet = 46."
What on earth does this mean?
Does it mean 3 quavers = 46? I find it impossible to get any sense of what this should mean in terms of speed or beat. I've trawled the internet for an answer but to no avail. I'd be delighted for an explanation. Many thanks.
Adult Beginner
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PianoAngel
- Junior Poster
- Posts: 27
- Joined: 20 Aug 2008, 13:39
- Location: Glasgow
Hey Geelan,
You've pretty much got the idea with the 46 = 3 quavers! Set the metronome to 46, the play the 1st quaver of each set of 3 on the tick with the other 2 inbetween ticks. One way of making this easier is saying 'strawberry' as you play. So for C major - C 'Straw' E 'ber' G 'ry' C 'Straw' G 'ber' E 'ry' C 'Sauce'. The metronome would tick on every 'Straw' and on the 'Sauce' at the end.
You've pretty much got the idea with the 46 = 3 quavers! Set the metronome to 46, the play the 1st quaver of each set of 3 on the tick with the other 2 inbetween ticks. One way of making this easier is saying 'strawberry' as you play. So for C major - C 'Straw' E 'ber' G 'ry' C 'Straw' G 'ber' E 'ry' C 'Sauce'. The metronome would tick on every 'Straw' and on the 'Sauce' at the end.
Excellent! Sincere thanks for your quick reply. I'll set up the metronome in the next few minutes and have a go.
I must say I still don't understand the reason for the value of 46. Why not 45 or 50?
Is there something significant about the number 46? Neither crotchets nor quavers will divide equally into it. I wonder who thought it up and for what reason.
This looks like a good forum for all things piano, I'm sure somebody out there has an answer.
Once again, many thanks!
I must say I still don't understand the reason for the value of 46. Why not 45 or 50?
Is there something significant about the number 46? Neither crotchets nor quavers will divide equally into it. I wonder who thought it up and for what reason.
This looks like a good forum for all things piano, I'm sure somebody out there has an answer.
Once again, many thanks!
46 is one of the numbers which appears on a traditional metronome ;45 does not. I'm sure that's the only reason.
To be honest, I've never looked closely at the speeds given for scales, arpeggios, etc; I'm sure they're only suggestions. I find that each pupil finds a comfortable speed, which is in accordance with the grade he/she is at.
Congratulations on setting off on the piano discovery. I would suggest that some lessons would be helpful at some stage; it is so easy to slip into bad habits otherwise.
(I love the strawberry suggestion. So much more helpful than the awful French time names some of us were brought up on. (ta-te-ti for a triplet!!!)
To be honest, I've never looked closely at the speeds given for scales, arpeggios, etc; I'm sure they're only suggestions. I find that each pupil finds a comfortable speed, which is in accordance with the grade he/she is at.
Congratulations on setting off on the piano discovery. I would suggest that some lessons would be helpful at some stage; it is so easy to slip into bad habits otherwise.
(I love the strawberry suggestion. So much more helpful than the awful French time names some of us were brought up on. (ta-te-ti for a triplet!!!)
Very interesting! And interesting too is your comment regarding development of bad habits. This is one of the reasons I'm using the metronome at such an early stage. I'm concentrating on note accuracy, fingering, eveness of tone and eveness of the time intervals between notes. While I find the Meter Recognition Drill in Auralia 3 very tough, I imagine that developing an accurate sense of the various rhythm types would be a further barrier to the development of bad habits. Of course, having a teacher, even on an occasional basis, would be ideal but they are more scarce than chicken's teeth in my neck of the woods.
I'm sure a conscientious adult could cope with the rhythmic complexities you mention. When I say "bad habits" I'm really thinking about things like hand positions, fingers, relaxation - all the muscular things which are difficult to get right without 1-to-1 supervision. If you get these things wrong early on, they can be very difficult to change later. (I suppose a self-taught driver might be a comparison.)
However, I don't mean to be discouraging. Just get someone to look at your progress occasionally.
However, I don't mean to be discouraging. Just get someone to look at your progress occasionally.
No discouragement taken! Your point is very important. I would never have thought so until I read Dr John Meffen's book and another, into which I dipped, written by a medical Dr who was also a concert pianist. This latter book, I can't remember either the title or the author, but I have it somewhere, was essentially a description of the physiology of piano playing and how knowledge of one's own physiology can be used to great benefit when practising and playing. I'll dig it out sometime soon. In the meantime, your good self and John Meffin will keep me alert.
Many thanks to you all for the welcome agus go raibh maith agat to you Dave - haven't heard your surname around here but I'll do some research on it and let you know my findings.
I never realised there was so much interest across all age groups in learning to play the piano. Some months ago I mentioned to somebody my intention to do so - the response, which I have since learned is typical, was "... waste of time. You should have started when you were five or six."
The community support offered through this forum is the antedote to such a defeatist attitude and I'm delighted to be part of it.
Now, time for a question: music notes covered by a slur, how are they expected to be played? My impression is that all notes are sounded but the first note is held until the last note under the slur is is played. Looking forward to an answer.
By the way, I've been away for the weekend and just returned, which is why I'm posting so late.
I never realised there was so much interest across all age groups in learning to play the piano. Some months ago I mentioned to somebody my intention to do so - the response, which I have since learned is typical, was "... waste of time. You should have started when you were five or six."
The community support offered through this forum is the antedote to such a defeatist attitude and I'm delighted to be part of it.
Now, time for a question: music notes covered by a slur, how are they expected to be played? My impression is that all notes are sounded but the first note is held until the last note under the slur is is played. Looking forward to an answer.
By the way, I've been away for the weekend and just returned, which is why I'm posting so late.
No, Dave, I don't live in a Gaeltacht area. I'm about an hour and a half by car from the nearest - the Connemara Gaeltacht. I usually go there a few times a year to do a little photography. Connemara, Achill Island and Clifden in Galway are my favourite locations. My Irish too, is very rusty - I have better Italian.
When I think of Irish, I almost always think of my favourite commedian, Spike Milligan. He always considered himself Irish and had the epitaph on his gravestone written in Irish. With typical Milligan wit, it reads; "Duirt me go bhi me breoite." (I did say I was sick).
Thanks for the info on the meaning and purpose of phrasemarks. There is one piano piece which I intend to master no matter what it takes, Beethoven's Fur Elise. I have heard many versions of it but the version on HMV's Piano Favourites is, I think, particularly beautiful. I have no idea what level of technical difficulty is involved and I'd be interested in comments. I have the music notation for it and there are phrasemarks galore through it.
When I think of Irish, I almost always think of my favourite commedian, Spike Milligan. He always considered himself Irish and had the epitaph on his gravestone written in Irish. With typical Milligan wit, it reads; "Duirt me go bhi me breoite." (I did say I was sick).
Thanks for the info on the meaning and purpose of phrasemarks. There is one piano piece which I intend to master no matter what it takes, Beethoven's Fur Elise. I have heard many versions of it but the version on HMV's Piano Favourites is, I think, particularly beautiful. I have no idea what level of technical difficulty is involved and I'd be interested in comments. I have the music notation for it and there are phrasemarks galore through it.
Hi Geelan,
I'm an adult learner too, been teaching myself for about 7 months now! I can't afford lessons yet.
Don't believe the rubbish people say about what age you need to be to learn (anything) the piano, those people are quitters! It was that kind of mentality that put me off wanting to learn for a bit, but I am quite supprised how much I have managed to teach myself about music in this short space of time. Just wish I could have lessons, then I would pick it up even faster!
As for Beethoven's Fur Elise I heard on this site some where It is about grade 5. Its on my Wish List of things to play too!
About phrasemarks or slurs, you just play the notes under them, legato
( smoothly and contected ). Don't get them mixed up with the Tie as I think you were.
I'm no expert but I like to help!
I'm an adult learner too, been teaching myself for about 7 months now! I can't afford lessons yet.
Don't believe the rubbish people say about what age you need to be to learn (anything) the piano, those people are quitters! It was that kind of mentality that put me off wanting to learn for a bit, but I am quite supprised how much I have managed to teach myself about music in this short space of time. Just wish I could have lessons, then I would pick it up even faster! As for Beethoven's Fur Elise I heard on this site some where It is about grade 5. Its on my Wish List of things to play too!
About phrasemarks or slurs, you just play the notes under them, legato
( smoothly and contected ). Don't get them mixed up with the Tie as I think you were.
I'm no expert but I like to help!
Moonlight - Thanks for the encouraging words. I agree wholeheartedly with you regards the learning of anything. I've proved it to myself many times.
I'm looking at the music for Fur Elise right now and cannot make up my mind whether I'm looking at Ties or Phrasemarks based on what yourself and Dave have said.
Apart from Fur Elise, the Chopin Preludes are wonderful. I have an album by Rafal Belchacz, The Complete Chopin Preludes, Deutsche Grammophon, and which is a must for piano and Chopin lovers. Many of these are on my WishList also.
Good luck with the job hunting - I know it's a horrible situation to be in. One thing we learn about life is that nothing remains the same - so good times are always around the bend.
I'm looking at the music for Fur Elise right now and cannot make up my mind whether I'm looking at Ties or Phrasemarks based on what yourself and Dave have said.
Apart from Fur Elise, the Chopin Preludes are wonderful. I have an album by Rafal Belchacz, The Complete Chopin Preludes, Deutsche Grammophon, and which is a must for piano and Chopin lovers. Many of these are on my WishList also.
Good luck with the job hunting - I know it's a horrible situation to be in. One thing we learn about life is that nothing remains the same - so good times are always around the bend.
If the curved line is between two notes (or more) of the SAME pitch, it's a tie, so you only play the first one and just hold the note down for the combined length.Geelan wrote: I'm looking at the music for Fur Elise right now and cannot make up my mind whether I'm looking at Ties or Phrasemarks based on what yourself and Dave have said.
.
If the curved line is linking notes of different pitches, imagine you are a singer (or a wind instrument player) and play all those notes in one breath.
(Two notes of different pitches with a curved line between them will often be played with an accent on the first note; and the second note rather quieter and slightly shorter.)
All this will become instinctive as you play more!!
Yeah people often confuse these. A brilliant book to read is The AB Guide to Music Theory Volume 1, by Eric Taylor. It's a great book and your local music shop should should stock it. Well worth owning as its an invaluable reference guide.dave brum wrote:It's SOOOOO easy to confuse slurs and ties. The rule is that ties connect two notes of the same pitch, whereas slurs/phrasemarks connect whole sections of pieces.
Aww Anna I feel for you with the job hunting. I remember getting so frustrated when I was job hunting after uni - filling in so many forms takes ages.
Fur Elise is a wonderful piece of music - if you're not yet ready for the proper Grade 5 score, lots of piano books will have a simplified version in it. My piano book has one - its called 'Its never too late to play the piano' by Pamela Wedgewood.
Aaaah Chopin...........
Hi Geelan,
Thanks for the encouraging comments regarding job hunting.
I don't have any of Chopins Preludes, I'll keep that album in mind when I can finally treat myself to annother CD!
Deutsche Grammophon are a really good make. I have all of Beethoven's piano sonatas played by Daniel Barenboim boxed set ( its expensive 45 or 50 quid!? ) its really good to buy for a birthday or christmas present or if you really want to splash out on a nice box set!
I have all his ( chopin's) etudes on a Naxos CD, there good those CDs if your on low budget ( about 6 quid ), they have good sound quality, but are played by less well known musicians.
Thanks for the encouraging comments regarding job hunting.
I don't have any of Chopins Preludes, I'll keep that album in mind when I can finally treat myself to annother CD!
Deutsche Grammophon are a really good make. I have all of Beethoven's piano sonatas played by Daniel Barenboim boxed set ( its expensive 45 or 50 quid!? ) its really good to buy for a birthday or christmas present or if you really want to splash out on a nice box set!
I have all his ( chopin's) etudes on a Naxos CD, there good those CDs if your on low budget ( about 6 quid ), they have good sound quality, but are played by less well known musicians.
Yeah I've used the CD a few times, its quite gooddave brum wrote:I've got that same Pam Wedgwood book, do u still have the CD that comes with it? I like to play some of the classical pieces in the back of the book or some of her sight read tests when I've got the old 'brain fog'
I'd love to build up my classical music collection. I have a few CDs, mostly of stuff I've played or sung. I have a couple of those Classic FM compilations which always have the same stuff on them too!
I wonder if this site could help me to improve my piano playing. A quick summary of where I am.
Self taught on keyboards for about five years, single finger chord and auto rhythm etc. Learned all the main fingered chords and right hand melody line, for easier scales C, F,G.
Bought a piano, and began playing with two hands. Found reading the left hand sheet music very difficult to co-ordinate. Decided to learn the chord method, lead sheets and fake books. After about five years, I am very pleased with what I can play, with LH arpeggios, broken chords, and block chords, and RH melody and a few chords. This has worked well for hymns, slower standards, and blues. However, I would like some more variation, but have found inverted chords difficult to remember to make it sound better. As I am now 66, is there anything relatively simple I could do to improve playing popular music with the chord method? I have tried some courses, but others seem very expensive for what they claim. Hope I've posted in the right place.
Self taught on keyboards for about five years, single finger chord and auto rhythm etc. Learned all the main fingered chords and right hand melody line, for easier scales C, F,G.
Bought a piano, and began playing with two hands. Found reading the left hand sheet music very difficult to co-ordinate. Decided to learn the chord method, lead sheets and fake books. After about five years, I am very pleased with what I can play, with LH arpeggios, broken chords, and block chords, and RH melody and a few chords. This has worked well for hymns, slower standards, and blues. However, I would like some more variation, but have found inverted chords difficult to remember to make it sound better. As I am now 66, is there anything relatively simple I could do to improve playing popular music with the chord method? I have tried some courses, but others seem very expensive for what they claim. Hope I've posted in the right place.
If you are using chord piano to help you play, then you shouldn't really have to pay anything for getting tips and ways of extending your skills. What you are learning is largely the basis for what contemporary musicians use to cope with music in pop, blues and jazz where improvisation is a must have.
I thought of these websites to check out because they offer you lessons free of charge, but also provide video training as opposed to reading or listening only. Here they are:
http://www.playpiano.com/
http://www.yokewong.net/
http://www.rocketpiano.com/
Bear in mind that you may need to register with some of these as they e-mail you with updates and links to other resources down the line. They also offer you the change to unsubscribe if you get fed-up. Having said that, these resources will help you but being able to play chords in the left and right using all inversions is going to be very important if you are to take your piano playing to another level.
I thought of these websites to check out because they offer you lessons free of charge, but also provide video training as opposed to reading or listening only. Here they are:
http://www.playpiano.com/
http://www.yokewong.net/
http://www.rocketpiano.com/
Bear in mind that you may need to register with some of these as they e-mail you with updates and links to other resources down the line. They also offer you the change to unsubscribe if you get fed-up. Having said that, these resources will help you but being able to play chords in the left and right using all inversions is going to be very important if you are to take your piano playing to another level.