George Rogers & Sons Upright

[Fletchtek]

An old George Rogers & Sons piano has recently landed in my lap and I'm looking at a few small tweaks to make it vaguely playable. I'm sure it's worth practically nothing but it may be of historical interest. I have found out a few things about it and wondered if anyone has encountered this type of instrument before. Anything of interest? Anything I need to look out for? Would it have coped with A440 in its day? (Quite different from what it might cope with now!)

Details:

Maker: George Rogers & Sons
Serial number: 10455
Construction: Wooden frame, obviously from some time in the 19th Century. 85 keys. Steel bi-chords on nearly all of the treble except the top 16 notes that are tri-chord.
Size: Very small size (cottage?) upright. About 1 metre high.

The only thing I haven't sussed out is the motif on the lid. It states "George Rogers & Sons from Collard & Collard 2 High Street Camden." Try as I might I can't find a link between the two. Were they linked in some way? The piano is definitely not made by Collard & Collard as "Maker: G Rogers" is splattered about in several places inside including on the pin block. Any info appreciated.

[Bill Kibby]

George Rogers was trained at the Collard factory, but later went on to be quite famous in his own right as a piano maker. The number suggests about 1879, and although we have no hard evidence for these number dates yet, they seem about right in many instances. Have a look at the Datemarks page at www.pianogen.org for possible confirmation of the date.

The question of pitch has been answered in a recent enquiry at this forum, "Broadwood & Sons Tuning Scale", and this piano would certainly have been capable of A440 then, but I can't say about now. I'd be interested to see it if you could email any photos.

[Fletchtek]

Here are some photos of the George Rogers & Sons small upright Serial number 10455.

Hopefully they speak for themselves. You may even be able to see that the action is in a bit of a state!

[Bill Kibby]

Thanks for the photos, the date seems quite likely, I would have put it around 1880-ish. Rogers is said to have set up his business in 1843. The action is described as "Patent Check Action", and the word "check" seems pointless to us nowadays, because all actions now have checks, but many London pianos of this era had the old "Sticker Actions" with no checks. As for the "Patent", this action looks like it may have been imported from Germany, rather than being Rogers' patent. If you know how to remove the action safely, there may be markings on the rear which would tell us more.

[Fletchtek]

You're spot on about the action being imported.

I did take it out when those photos were taken but didn't think to take specific photos of it "out".

I noticed a metal tag on the back of the action relating to a French manufacturer.

Sadly the action is not in great shape mainly due to some brutal "repairs" made by someone in the past and perished felts and bridal tapes. Amazingly the hammers don't look too bad for their age though...

The broken bridal tapes made mounting the action back in the piano a very fiddly operation as you could imagine - but with care and patience it went back in with no harm done.

The piano is at my "in laws" and I'll next be there in a couple of weeks. Will post more pics of the action and see if I can get the manufacturers name then.

Thanks for your help so far...

[Bill Kibby]

It will be interesting to know who that was, I was quite sure it was a German design, but life is always full of surprises!

[Fletchtek]

Hello, it's been a long time to reply (fell asleep) but you may like to know the make of action in the Old George Rogers discussed back last October. The action is marked Gehrling - Paris. Some quick research on the net reveals they were quite well known at the time. As an interesting aside I stumbled across similar sized old piano made by "H Bord - Paris" (I hope the name is right) (and sorry no pics). It was similar size to the Rogers except it had a 3/4 iron plate instead of entirely wooden frame. Of more interest to me was the near identical action - but made by Schwander.

[Bill Kibby]

Gehrling imported actions for many London upright pianos before the 1914 war, and his labels mayy mention dates of medals he received at exhibitions, usually starting at 1880. Are there any? Bord's first name was Anton, but the fancy lettering is often mistaken for an H or K. Incidentally, it is not unreasonable to describe your piano as having an entirely wooden frame, but like most Cottage Pianos, it has an iron hitchplate at the bottom.

[Bill Kibby]

Gehrling imported actions for many London upright pianos before the 1914 war, and his labels may mention dates of medals he received at exhibitions, usually starting at 1880. Are there any? Bord's first name was Anton, but the fancy lettering is often mistaken for an H or K. Incidentally, it is not unreasonable to describe your piano as having an entirely wooden frame, but like most Cottage Pianos, it has an iron hitchplate at the bottom.

[mbh31]

I'm trying to figure out the age of a piano with the numbers from the inside that say 1755 40767.

Thanks for the help,

mh

[Bill Kibby]

40767 suggests that it was made in 1930.