This concerns a new Bechstein Academy 124. Certain notes - especially the lowest treble before the crossover (if this makes sense) have very strong harmonics that do not stop when the dampers are reapplied. ie one plays the note (loud) and then releases the key so that the damper is reapplied and one hears the continual sound of a note at a much higher pitch (I would guess that it is a harmonic but I can not be absolutely sure). This is not caused by the damper not damping the strings - but something: I am not sure if it the soundboard - or the frame - or some coupling between the two that keeps ringing for a long time. The note next to it does not have this effect at all.
Question: how much of this is 'normal'? My old Rosler does not display this effect at all - but in comparison the tone of the Rosler is rather dead compared to the Bechstein. I will get our tuner to come and inspect it - so eventually I will get some expert advice - but any feedback from you guys would help me to think about this. I am sure that one can do something to the soundboard to stop this problem - but I would hate to lose any of the beautiful singing tone that I enjoy.
Sorry for such an imprecise question...
Strange resonances: how much is 'normal'?
Moderators: Feg, Gill the Piano, Melodytune
Re: Strange resonances: how much is 'normal'?
If its a new piano your first stop is the supplying dealer.crispin wrote: I will get our tuner to come and inspect it.
(a) The supplier-dealer is 2 hours travel away ...
(b) I suspect that the supplier-dealer is more interested in 'supplying' than after-sales service - so I am not sure if I can trust anything he tells me with 100% confidence (maybe I am being unfair to him)
Given this I prefer to get the expert opinion of a tuner I have used over the years who is truly independent ... so if there is a real problem - (rather than an imagined problem in my mind) I can speak to the dealer-supplier with absolute confidence.
The thing is that these undamped harmonics are clearly there if one looks for them - however in normal playing I am not certain one would really notice them - so how much of this effect is just having a 'lively' sound board?
Anyway our tuner had a free slot later today ... so I will get some expert info on this.
(b) I suspect that the supplier-dealer is more interested in 'supplying' than after-sales service - so I am not sure if I can trust anything he tells me with 100% confidence (maybe I am being unfair to him)
Given this I prefer to get the expert opinion of a tuner I have used over the years who is truly independent ... so if there is a real problem - (rather than an imagined problem in my mind) I can speak to the dealer-supplier with absolute confidence.
The thing is that these undamped harmonics are clearly there if one looks for them - however in normal playing I am not certain one would really notice them - so how much of this effect is just having a 'lively' sound board?
Anyway our tuner had a free slot later today ... so I will get some expert info on this.
He could be on the other side of the earth. Its still his responsibility. He took your money and now he gets away with shoddy after sales service. Make sure you r tech just looks and doesnt fiddle otherwise goodbye guarantee. Did you know the dealer was this lax before you bought form them. Wasnt there a Bechstein dealer closer to you than 2 hours?crispin wrote:(a) The supplier-dealer is 2 hours travel away ...
(b) I suspect that the supplier-dealer is more interested in 'supplying' than after-sales service - so I am not sure if I can trust anything he tells me with 100% confidence (maybe I am being unfair to him)
Given this I prefer to get the expert opinion of a tuner I have used over the years who is truly independent ... so if there is a real problem - (rather than an imagined problem in my mind) I can speak to the dealer-supplier with absolute confidence.
The thing is that these undamped harmonics are clearly there if one looks for them - however in normal playing I am not certain one would really notice them - so how much of this effect is just having a 'lively' sound board?
Anyway our tuner had a free slot later today ... so I will get some expert info on this.
Most likely this is another completely different string resonating in sympathy. Try taking the bottom door off and damping the bass strings, it could be a long section of a string below the damper that is just the wrong length to cause sympathetic resonance.
Also check that the sound isn't coming from another source such as another musical instrument in the same room.
Also check that the sound isn't coming from another source such as another musical instrument in the same room.
I have much the same problem with my current Kawai piano and am absolutely at a loss to determine what is causing it, having looked high and low, along with the tech. In an ironic twist of fate I am fortunately replacing my current piano with a nice spanking new Sauter M-line 130, so the mystery will remain unsolved, at least by me.
try damping the offending note with your finger above the damper immediately you've released the key. If that cures the noise then it is not damping properly. This could be caused by ill-adjusted dampers themselves,spoons acting too early or the finisher having a bad day and the dampers fitted at the wrong node. The finger test will eliminate all these possibilities
All unlikely on a new Bechstein,
All unlikely on a new Bechstein,
Many thanks PianoGuy - you were right on the money with your comment:
Other than that he found it an excellent example of Bechstein - interestingly although he was familiar with the C. Bechstein, the Zimmerman and the Hoffmann this was the first Bechstein Academy he had come across and he was very surprized at 'low'* price paid for it ( * in comparison to the C. Bechstein's). Tuning wise the lower tenor/bass notes had drifted however he was shocked to find the highest octave or two unpleasantly sharp. (The tuner must have been in a big hurry - he said - and it is a good thing you called me).
It never crossed my mind that I might invalidate the warrantee by getting an independent tech to work on this piano.. but since he is a careful swiss maybe I do not have to worry.
As an aside... there are closer Bechstein dealers - but I live on the swiss/french border in France - and all these closer dealers are in Switzerland. rather than dealing with importing the piano (Switzerland is not an EU country) I had to go the other direction to Lyon. Actually - in reality - the distance is not such a fundamental problem however I got the feeling that after-sales service would not be the strong point with this dealer (however the price was excellent). Maybe the badly tuned high octaves supports this feeling. The Sauter dealer in Lyon however gave the impression of really loving his pianos - if I had bought a Sauter I would have had no hesitation calling him about any problem and getting a meaningful answer - but these M-Line Sauters were too expensive! (Congratulations Genaa again!)
Anyway my mind has been put to rest and happiness in a freshly tuned piano
The problem is made worse since the last four notes before the cross over have progressively shortened dampers (to leave room for the crossing strings).. but the real problem is these long section of bass strings. In this case he increased the tension of the dampers on these strings and improved the problem... I can not be sure but maybe there is still some high frequency component there but the problem is essentially no longer audible unless you are determined to find a fault. He told me that in one case he added a strip of felt wound in between the bass strings (at the bottom of the strings) to add some dampening - but in this case one losses some of the power of the bass - I politely said that this was not an interesting solution - I liked the power in the bass.Most likely this is another completely different string resonating in sympathy. Try taking the bottom door off and damping the bass strings, it could be a long section of a string below the damper that is just the wrong length to cause sympathetic resonance.
Other than that he found it an excellent example of Bechstein - interestingly although he was familiar with the C. Bechstein, the Zimmerman and the Hoffmann this was the first Bechstein Academy he had come across and he was very surprized at 'low'* price paid for it ( * in comparison to the C. Bechstein's). Tuning wise the lower tenor/bass notes had drifted however he was shocked to find the highest octave or two unpleasantly sharp. (The tuner must have been in a big hurry - he said - and it is a good thing you called me).
It never crossed my mind that I might invalidate the warrantee by getting an independent tech to work on this piano.. but since he is a careful swiss maybe I do not have to worry.
As an aside... there are closer Bechstein dealers - but I live on the swiss/french border in France - and all these closer dealers are in Switzerland. rather than dealing with importing the piano (Switzerland is not an EU country) I had to go the other direction to Lyon. Actually - in reality - the distance is not such a fundamental problem however I got the feeling that after-sales service would not be the strong point with this dealer (however the price was excellent). Maybe the badly tuned high octaves supports this feeling. The Sauter dealer in Lyon however gave the impression of really loving his pianos - if I had bought a Sauter I would have had no hesitation calling him about any problem and getting a meaningful answer - but these M-Line Sauters were too expensive! (Congratulations Genaa again!)
Anyway my mind has been put to rest and happiness in a freshly tuned piano
try the finger ploy as it's infallible for at least eliminating a bad damper which appears to be functioning correctly.
Remember that the break is a black hole which exercises all piano makers- there is a compromise in the strike height,in the damper length and the tonal difference at the break where two different bridges in different parts of the piano are speaking.
Thankfully, we seem to be spared the old fly dampers favoured by Bechstein which created more rattles than they were worth
Remember that the break is a black hole which exercises all piano makers- there is a compromise in the strike height,in the damper length and the tonal difference at the break where two different bridges in different parts of the piano are speaking.
Thankfully, we seem to be spared the old fly dampers favoured by Bechstein which created more rattles than they were worth