Weston piano

[jeanhn]

Please can anyone out there help me to date my S Weston & Co, London Upright Iron Grand piano? It has a beautiful walnut (I think!) case with inlaid flowers and would once have had candlesticks, but these were removed many, many years ago. It has number 11099 marked on it in several places - perhaps a serial number? We think it must be around 100 years old, but would be interested if anyone can confirm this.

[Bill Kibby]

I have nothing ready on computer about this particular Weston yet, but I'll see what I can find. You might like to read the datemarks page. Numbers are no use with this name. It would be helpful if you could email some photos.

[jeanhn]

Thanks for the feedback. There is no label on the piano, no date marks from piano tuners inside the top, or any marks at all I can find on the iron frame - I looked for all these before posting on the forum. Unfortunately I don't have a good photo (only one of the whole room with the piano in the corner) - I don't have a digital camera either so it will take some time to get one.

[Bill Kibby]

There were some "Weston" pianos allegedly made in London around a hundred years ago, but I cannot find any record of a real piano maker by that name. When Monington & Weston closed their factory, they kindly invited me along to collect some archive material, and asked if I could tell them anything about their Mr Weston, but I have never found anything.

[Bill Kibby]

Maggie's posting about Maver turned up in this thread, so it has been re-posted under the name of the piano, and Maggie should post a reply to it.

[Bill Kibby]

Since I have never found any reference to them in 42 years, not even when I lived and tuned in London, this is almost certainly an alias used on pianos bought in from anonymous wholesalers. No-one can comment on whether it is a good make, since it is not a make, but it is the present condition of the piano which is important, you need a report from a tuner. I can do it if you are in East Anglia. Saying it "needs tuning" suggests that it may be so bad that there is a reason for it.

[Wainwright]

I am a Piano Technician in Yellowknife, NWT, Canada ..... on the North Shore of Great Slave Lake.
There is an "S.Weston & Co. – London", serial #11333, apartment sized upright here in Yellowknife !! .... didn't measure it, but it looks mid-sized, about 1.3m. high .... short keyboard (85 keys, A0 - A7). Alas, no date to be found anywhere on it .... Keys built by "Edwards" action built by "Brookes" (possibly – couldn't read it properly.
Nice veneer .... possibly walnut .... very light-weight construction throughout.
Many unusual features:
3/4 plate, parallel strung, bird-cage dampers,lowest octave or so single strings (naturally)– then duplex strung right up about C5, soft pedal pushes up a bar with a strip of blanket type material between the hammer and the strings (instead of moving the hammer rail).... I've never seen one of those before used for a 'soft pedal'.
Unfortunately, age has overtaken this Piano; sections of the bridge have separated from the soundboard, and there are numerous vertical cracks in the pin block ..... owner does not want to spend money on repairs (these are not cheap problems to fix) ...... ergo, dead piano .... pity.

[Bill Kibby]

Any chance you could post photos here, or email them to me? Another 8 years have gone by, and still no sign of a real firm called Weston, unless he was the John Weston who became half of Monington & Weston. It was perhaps around 1868 that James Monington went into partnership with John Weston, about whom nothing is known yet. There is an overlap of over 30 years between the use of the names "Monington & Co." & "Monington & Weston". Of course, these are not unusual features at all in an old British or European piano. 85 notes is the commonest range for an old piano, as you can read at
http://pianogen.org/british.html
The soft pedal is known as a CELESTE, but in the states these are quite common in modern pianos, and aptly known as a MUFFLER. Brooks is mentioned near the bottom of the page at
http://pianogen.org/numbers.html
and suggests a date before 1920, but having 2 strings per note up that far seems a much earlier feature. Off the top of my head, I have no idea which is C5, we number them by counting notes from the bottom... C4 C16 C28 etc.

Edwards doesn't ring any bells, he was probably a worker rather than a boss.

[alexp]

hello!
i get here because i was eager to know the history of a piano i have at home.
the piano was a gift i received 5 years ago; unfortunately i am not a piano expert.
as far as i know, it has been bought in rome, approximately in the 1950s-1960s;
and it has the brand " s. weston & co. , pianoforte manufacturers and importers, london. iron frame, full trichord, check action".
hope to give some more help to other owners!

[alexp]

The attachment image.jpg is no longer available

[Bill Kibby]

It looks a typical Edwardian piano, perhaps around 1910, I think everything I can tell you is already at
http://pianogen.org/british.html

It would be interesting to know if Wainwright's piano looks like this one.

For clues hidden inside it, see
http://pianogen.org/datemarks.html

[alexp]

thank you for answering!
i am very interested in knowing the history of my piano. though i am a singer and guitarist, i ve never been interested in old pianos and 5 years ago i thought it was just a nice furniture. the other day, just by chance i looked on the internet and found this website and now i am getting passionate to this -for me- new world!
today i opened the piano, unfortunately no dates were found; but i have some more pics here.

[alexp]

a small update...
the tuner was here and confirmed it is a piano of end 1800-beginning 1900.
it is in very good conditions though it has not been tuned since a long time. no date has been found, just the serial number.
the tuner and his team will completely renovate the piano, included the french polish; i really hope they will do a good job!
thank you all again for your suggestions!
alex

[alexp]

here, in sardina -italy-, they asked me between 2300€ and 2500€ to completely renew the piano, included the furniture, french polish, tuning etc
as far as i know, the tuner is serious and his family operates here since 1895.
i saw that some hammers are broken, strings have to be substituted, pedals too, and the wood needs to be restored.
do you think it is a fair price? i don t have to perform on concerts with it, but i would like to have an antique piano in good conditions to play sometimes.
thank you!

[Colin Nicholson]

It would be far easier if your quote was shown in "UK Sterling.... POUNDS" .... since this forum is based in the UK.... very few can be bothered to convert it - so its your call.

Always get about THREE separate and independent quotes for piano restoration, not just one.... unless restorers are hard to come by in your area.

The restoration very much lies with the quality and level of work done.... its not enough to just say "French polished".... there are various different techniques and methods, and depending on the final overall finish required..... so you may be paying for the very basic service. I would also ask them what their 'top end' fee would be - as this price may be estimated.

We would need to see a detailed quotation/ estimated invoice etc.... showing the detail of work to be done, labour costs, material costs etc.... including the level of work done to the cabinet/pedals/strings/ mechanism/tuning etc. for us to comment on the price.... however, we tend not to get too involved, as this is not a comparison price forum..... just general advice/piano problems/ history etc....

I doubt if that fee would "completely renew" your piano - far from it. Substituted strings will mean that the original string(s) broke during being tuned - so the piano may need to be re-strung. That alone in the UK costs in the region of £1.5K. A complete restoration involves a NEW mechanism, NEW strings - everything restored - and costing well in excess of £5K minimum.

[Bill Kibby]

Here in Britain such a piano would not be worth 2300 euros.

[Colin Nicholson]

Absolutely right Bill...... regrettably many of these old pianos are not economical to restore, and often is the case, over-dampered mechanisms can be riddled with problems. Depending on the pitch of this piano shown above, I suspect it may be well below Concert Pitch?? .... and I can also see the scars of a broken string or 2, so Concert Pitch may never be seen.... only tuned at the pitch it has settled. Just to let you know that even if this piano is 'tidied up' .... it will still be worth very little, due its internal stringing & mechanism design.... so I wouldn't spend a fortune on it.... for your money, you could get a much better piano.... and in much better condition.

Alexp......

Just to draw your attention towards something.... I have noticed on the image showing the broken string (and other tuning pins & strings).... if you look at the image below taken from your picture - the tuning pin & its coil marked with an arrow have about the right gap between the back of the coil and the wrest plank (wooden section) .... this looks ok,,,,,, however, I would be very concerned about the tuning pin & coil I have circled in red.... note that there is NO gap at the back. (Have a look in other places for this). This is the sign of loose tuning pins and a previous tuner has driven the pin in further to make it grip better - however, the pin marked '?' looks as though it has broken inside the tuning pin (on the bend - as the string enters the hole in the pin). Although some of the pins may be fine.... this spells danger for the future - and you may find your piano will not stay in tune for long.
There should be a uniform gap behind every coil. See below >>>

Tuning pin problems?