Fazioli

Openwood · Post by **Openwood** » 12 Mar 2008, 22:41

Is the fourth pedal any good? I was wondering how it reduces the volume "without effecting the timbre". I'd assumed it was for pumping out the ice cream.

How much would a new F212 go for? I ask only for the comedy value, you understand.

markymark · Post by **markymark** » 13 Mar 2008, 02:10

Du-uh! The fourth pedal is quite obviously the choke for when tackling those dense Rachmanininov pieces!

Grenache · Post by **Grenache** » 13 Mar 2008, 08:27

I thought the four pedals were there for the convenience of those who enjoy playing duets!

Post by **Gill the Piano** » 13 Mar 2008, 18:04

On a Morris Minor, it's accelerator, brake, clutch and headlamp dipswitch.

genaa · Post by **genaa** » 31 Mar 2008, 22:23

reminds me of that wonderful Victor Borge joke about the middle pedal being there to separate the other two...

Openwood · Post by **Openwood** » 01 Apr 2008, 22:27

It does seem bizarre that the middle pedal is considered indispensable on modern grands but it's practically never used. I've been playing since the age of about 10 and I've NEVER needed to use it. If the Fazioli fourth pedal does what it claims to do I'd happily dump the conventional middle pedal in it's favour.

David B · Post by **David B** » 02 Apr 2008, 08:48

Quite so, middle pedal is near useless as far as I can see. Worst is that you have to remember to use it after the relevant note, or it won't work. Since one is normally too busy thinking about the next note(s), its all just too complicated.

genaa · Post by **genaa** » 05 Apr 2008, 10:46

can anyone list any memorable pieces which rely upon use of sostenuto pedalling? I am sure they exist but I am not aware of them but have a sostenuto on my upright and perhaps I should at least either learn or learn about some 'tunes' to help explain to people who ask when they come over hehe?

joseph · Post by **joseph** » 08 Apr 2008, 23:52

i've used the middle pedal in the poulenc trio for bassoon, oboe and piano. Its marked in the score.

I've also used it in rhapsody in blue and some very modern works like McCabe stuff.

The fourth pedal on the Fazioli puts the hammers closer to the strings, like an uprights soft pedal, except its more sophisticated so the action doesn't go out of regulation. It does create this beautiful crystaline sound however I find it a bit gimmicky. Bluthner apparently built an experimental piano with this but didn't put it into production. Stuart and Sons have this pedal and some steingraber pianos have a combined shift/half blow pedal.

i'ma bit of a traditionalist when it comes to pedalling and use the pedal when its absolutely necessary. You know, like when you're so nervous you think you'll fall off the piano stool unless you have the pedal glued to the floor

genaa · Post by **genaa** » 09 Apr 2008, 16:27

being a returning learner I am always having to chastise myself for pedalling where I shouldn't be!

Openwood · Post by **Openwood** » 09 Apr 2008, 23:38

I've been listening to Angela Hewitt's recording of the Goldbergs - sounds like that fourth pedal gets used a few times, and if I've identified the places correctly it would tie in with Joseph's opinion that it's a nice sound but...

Stuart · Post by **Stuart** » 15 May 2008, 17:48

The third pedal is actually quite useful in those 'dense' Rachmaninov pieces. Look at the Op 23 No 5 Prelude. Stacks of opportunities eg to hold fortissimo bass chords whilst playing staccato piano chords above (bar 23 etc) and simply sustaining the bass line through the bar (bar 5 and many others). The sustaining pedal muddies the sound, without any pedal at all the bass just disappears. Yes, the timing can be tricky - very frustrating when you just fail to catch the note - but worth it. Also useful in his famous C# Minor Prelude, but things get really hairy if you try to use all three pedals in the pianissimo passages.

Wouldn't be without it.

Stuart

Post by **Gill the Piano** » 15 May 2008, 20:05

...and one of his Etudes Tableaux - the nice bouncy one. Yes, I know, but I can't be bothered to sort through all the heaps in the music room to find the Opus no., etc...

Jazzer · Post by **Jazzer** » 25 May 2008, 10:53

middle pedal is near useless as far as I can see. Worst is that you have to remember to use it after the relevant note, or it won't work. Since one is normally too busy thinking about the next note(s), its all just too complicated.

Absolutely!

emmac · Post by **emmac** » 19 Jun 2008, 20:12

In "The Piano Shop on the Left Bank" by T.E.Carhart (excellent book) the author describes his visit to the Fazioli workshop. Paolo Fazioli demonstrates the fourth pedal which brings the hammers closer to the strings. He explains that:
"This makes for a pianissimo that is amazingly complex since, unlike the conventional soft pedal which shifts the hammer to one side so it strikes only one string, it allows the hammer to hit all three strings per note in the treble range rather than just one."

Carhart said that this rendered Fazioli's playing of Debussy's Clair de Lune "unaccountably limpid and full of harmonics and overtones... something I had never heard before."

And something I'll never get the chance to try out, alas. Lucky you if you can!

Post by **Gill the Piano** » 19 Jun 2008, 20:14

If you go in for Marlow Music Festival in November, you can...

Jazzer · Post by **Jazzer** » 22 Jun 2008, 12:57

Is there a Fazioli dealer in London? I seem to have a dim memory of one near the Wigmore Hall....

genaa · Post by **genaa** » 23 Jun 2008, 09:08

Don't Jaques Samuels act as a Fazioli dealer? Not that it means they would necessarily have any instruments on their shop floor however!

Gooday · Post by **Gooday** » 11 Jul 2008, 14:38

If anyone manages to play the Fazlolis at JS on the ground floor without 'an alarm going off and being dragged out of the shop backwards' I'd be interested to know. I'd formed the opinion, based on my experience depressing keys on a Steinway O in the basement, that this would be the likely result.

And isn't moving the hammers nearer the strings what happens on my humble yamaha B1 with the soft pedal pressed?

David B · Post by **David B** » 14 Jul 2008, 09:16

I have played a Fazioli at J Samuels shop in London and...........

.............he ducks for cover behind the sofa, whilst donning tin helmut........

.........I was seriously unimpressed....could have been the accoustics in the room, but it didn't do it for me.

Openwood · Post by **Openwood** » 14 Jul 2008, 19:15

I've listened to a good many of La Hewitt's recordings and I've also got that DVD of her playing and talking about Bach (her spoken delivery is a disturbingly hypnotic cross between The Queen's Speech and Joyce Grenfell on tranquilisers) - and the Faziolis sound great. But then so would a Yam CFIII, a Steinway D, a Blutner Model 1 etc etc. I don't really see why she's so smitten with them, but then I've never played one or listened to one 'live' so I guess I'm talking out of my Bosendorfer. No change there.