Help with choices - Yamaha tone

[perna83]

Are the only 'mellow' sounding pianos around European makes? I knew Yamaha have a brighter tone, but when playing a few makes at a dealers today I found they all were very light and bright in tone. Perhaps older pianos are typically more mellow? unfortunately the japanese pianos appear to be the only ones in my price range.( Up to £3000). I actually liked the yamaha pianos, but would enjoy a mellower sound.

I am looking to buy an acoustic silent piano, having considered digital because of being able to practice more frequently and easily, but was won over by the silent series as I didn't really want a digital anyway having used an acoustic for years. However if I'm spending more money now I don't want to compromise on other aspects just to be able to play in silence. I found the Kemble silent range the same (with them being sister company with Yamaha), and am not aware of any other piano make that does a silent range. I'm also not willing to just use a 'practice pedal' of a normal acoustic piano.

Is is possible to slightly adjust the tone of a Yamaha on tuning to less bright, if the tuner knows what they are doing?
Thanks for anyones help!

[mdw]

and am not aware of any other piano make that does a silent range.

You can have almost any piano fitted with a silent system.

[Barrie Heaton]

Is is possible to slightly adjust the tone of a Yamaha on tuning to less bright, if the tuner knows what they are doing?
Thanks for anyones help!

Yes it can be taken down to any level

Barrie,

[Openwood]

Is is possible to slightly adjust the tone of a Yamaha on tuning to less bright, if the tuner knows what they are doing?

Yes, absolutely. I'd say it was essential, but once it's done you will have a very good instrument.

[sussexpianos]

The Irmler P118 is a very nice mellow tone and the K3 has a rounded Euro tone. The Samick WSU121 is nice and mellow but Samick use German hammers and they're German scaled so they tone nicely.
But a good tuner/technician can tone a piano down but remember when you come to sell it that toning a Yamaha down removes the tone that Yamaha owners like, bright and clear.

[mdw]

Heres a controversial idea. Try lots of pianos and buy the one you like. If you dont like it dont buy it and then try to get it changed into something it isnt!

You wouldnt buy a volvo and then get your local grease monkey to turn it into a bmw so why do people want to do it to a piano. If Yamaha wanted it to sound a certain way they would make it sound that way.

[sussexpianos]

what a great idea, Ive been trying to get my transporter van to do 180mph, I should have bought an M5 BMW! ( and a trailer)

[Barrie Heaton]

what a great idea, Ive been trying to get my transporter van to do 180mph, I should have bought an M5 BMW! ( and a trailer)

The roads are that bad down there should that be 180mm ph

Barrie,

[Openwood]

If Yamaha wanted it to sound a certain way they would make it sound that way.

Nah, can't agree with that. The great thing about Yams is they CAN sound how you want them too. I think it's a positive thing.

[sussexpianos]

Brighton is a bit of a nightmare, and parking, and parking wardens.
Im more of a county tuner, driving through the green countyside making pianos sound better and killing wool eating moths.
Is it me or is moth damage on the up?? I've had to re-felt 5 piano keybeds this year due to moth and overhaul 2. Rental kill shares will be going up !

[sussexpianos]

more moth damaged pianos this month. got to clean 2 pianos this week. everyone should get moth paper!

[Jazzer]

The thing about toning down Yamahas, as I have found, is that it needs to be done incredibly gradually and with lots of consultation. I recently played a C6 which everyone was very excited about because it was mellow, but I found that I couldn't make it sound exciting at all ... it was just mellow throughout (rather like having a "practice pedal" permanently down on an upright). The owner was thrilled, so that particular tech obviously did a great job - but I would have hated it! My own C7 is on the bright side, especially for the size of room, but when I can eventually afford a day's work from a tech I will ask her/him to take things very slowly...

[mdw]

Try mucking about with the acoustics of the room first, it might be cheaper. If you have lots of hard surfaces, wood floors, no curtains and no soft furnishings stick a big thick rug on the floor and see if it changes the sound.

[Jazzer]

I have a very thick rug underneath the C7 at the moment, and lots of furnishings in the room, but it's still "bright": much rather bright, as far as I am concerned, than muffled. But I have read posts elsewhere raving about C7s (and other Yammies) which have been toned down...

[mdw]

I have a very thick rug underneath the C7 at the moment, and lots of furnishings in the room, but it's still "bright": much rather bright, as far as I am concerned, than muffled. But I have read posts elsewhere raving about C7s (and other Yammies) which have been toned down...

From reading loads of posts the general feeling is that Yams sound c**p as supplied and virtualy every one wants the sound changed and made softer. In fact that seems to be the selling point of most of the Yam dealer web sites. Its the piano brand that every one moans about the tone. It would save the dealers a load of work if they got this right at the factory wouldnt it?

[Barrie Heaton]

From reading loads of posts the general feeling is that Yams sound c**p as supplied and virtualy every one wants the sound changed and made softer. In fact that seems to be the selling point of most of the Yam dealer web sites. Its the piano brand that every one moans about the tone. It would save the dealers a load of work if they got this right at the factory wouldnt it?

Well no. better to send out a piano over bright so you can bring it down. In days gone by it was normal for tuners to go out and tune and tone the piano on site I use to do that a lot in the 80s now with the cutbacks because of discounting that is no longer profitable and most who buy are buying for the kids and "don't get it" with tone, some ofthem don't get it with tuning

Barrie

[PianoGuy]

The certainly don't sound c**p out of the box. The preparation that they need (as does *any* piano) is more to do with regulation. An initially bright tone can be voiced down, but an initially mellow one is far more difficult to make brighter. There is therefore no 'right' sound to be obtained at the factory, and since all examples of any piano are subject to sample variance, it's always the best idea to find one you like the sound of generally before getting tonal tweaks carried out.

Many people are very happy with a brighter sound anyway.

[mdw]

I reallse its much easier to make it more mellow rather than brighter but you never hear anybody say oooooooooooh my yam isnt bright enough do you.!!!!

[Barrie Heaton]

I reallse its much easier to make it more mellow rather than brighter but you never hear anybody say oooooooooooh my yam isnt bright enough do you.!!!!

in the UK not often but have you ever been to the US no wonder so many tuners over there were ear plugs

Barrie,

[mdw]

Never been to the US but tuned the odd Baldwin so I know what you mean.

[vernon]

For goodness sake buy a piano whose " tone" you like and don't try fiddling with it after.
Tone is all in the head. It's produced not by the resilience of the hammer felt but by the whole animal--case,string quality, scale,hammers , tuning and it's environment.
What we hear from a piano is the sound of a bit of wire quivering in a column of air.. This is modified by all the above into " tone."
vernon

[mdw]

For goodness sake buy a piano whose " tone" you like and don't try fiddling with it after.

Couldnt agree more Vernon.

[Openwood]

For goodness sake buy a piano whose " tone" you like and don't try fiddling with it after.

Sorry, but that's bollox. I know precisely the pianos whose tone I like the best. They are:

Steinway D and B

Right, so according to you I should stop messing about and just go out and buy one. OK then, thanks for the tip, back in a mo......

SOMETIME LATER

Well, would you believe it? I tried to buy a nice new Steinway D, but guess what? I HAVEN'T GOT ENOUGH FRICKIN' MONEY.


That's why I got a Yam C3 instead - and even that's put me in debt for the next four years. And I paid a nice man to 'fiddle with it', as you put it. Actually, he was courteous and professional about it and spent a long while getting the thing to sound how I wanted. One day, hopefully, I will be able to afford something better, but right now I'm just pleased that the 'fiddling' has got the best possible result from my limited budget.

I know some of you tech guys out there would much rather that we ignorant punters stopped wasting your precious time, but fortunately there are others who are willing to get off their backsides and put the effort into building a good relationship with the punter based on giving them the best sound for their budget, even if that involves some 'fiddling'. Those are the ones who get my business and the business of people who ask me to recommend a tuner.

[PianoGuy]

For goodness sake buy a piano whose " tone" you like and don't try fiddling with it after.

Semi agreed.

Always buy a piano that you like playing and feel you could live with. This is why decent piano technicians advise that you find a piano that you like and buy that actual example and not rely on the possibility that another of the same type can be made to play like the one that you chose. A good dealer will provide a regulation and voicing inclusive of the price, and even do the final voicing in your home. A certain amount of after delivery "fiddling" will occasionally be necessary.

Of course you could always buy a piano from a cheapo dealer or internet johnny, then employ a good technician to do that which should have been done inclusive in the price at extra cost. This can sometimes work well, can sometimes produce less than ideal results, but sometimes results fall well below expectations. You then have the problem of to whom your complaint should be directed when all goes teats-up.

[mdw]

For goodness sake buy a piano whose " tone" you like and don't try fiddling with it after.

Sorry, but that's bollox. I know precisely the pianos whose tone I like the best. They are:

Steinway D and B

Right, so according to you I should stop messing about and just go out and buy one. OK then, thanks for the tip, back in a mo......

Well if you really want a D or B then YES .

The suggestion is dont buy something different and then try to get it to be a D or B Steinway because it wont be. Accept that the Yam is a reasonable bit of kit in its own right.

We all have to make compromises in life and lets face it unless you are loaded and can afford the Steinway the Yam is a good compromise.

[Jazzer]

We all have to make compromises in life and lets face it unless you are loaded and can afford the Steinway the Yam is a good compromise.

Very good, especially when a tech has worked on it...

[Openwood]

Very good, especially when a tech has worked on it

Yes, exactly. It gets me bloody cross when an assumption is made that 'fiddling' around with a piano is the end product of a brainless purchase by a dimwit. Frankly, it's my right to have my piano sound however the hell I want it too, and in the absence of enough cash to buy that 'dream piano' I'll do the best I can to get what I consider to be the best sound from my instrument. I think that's a sign of good stewardship and genuine interest in the instrument.

[MA. CECILIA M. DE MESA]

for all i know........ yamaha's "patent" is a bright tone sounding piano......... don't be afraid to buy other brand/s..... try the Kawai..........

[Jazzer]

Yes, indeed: I would say that they are generally bright. But I love that! On Friday I played a second-hand Steinway B in Steinway Hall, and I preferred my C7! And one of the model Ds had been voiced down, and I may even have preferred my C7 to that one...!

[Barrie Heaton]

Very good, especially when a tech has worked on it

Yes, exactly. It gets me bloody cross when an assumption is made that 'fiddling' around with a piano is the end product of a brainless purchase by a dimwit. Frankly, it's my right to have my piano sound however the hell I want it too, and in the absence of enough cash to buy that 'dream piano' I'll do the best I can to get what I consider to be the best sound from my instrument. I think that's a sign of good stewardship and genuine interest in the instrument.

You also have to look at it for the tuners view

I have a client that had got most tuners in the area to tune has piano and complained that the tunings were sharp when they had finished. This is 35K piano and a very talented player what he was getting at is that the piano was too bright voiced it down and all was well with the world. It can be very hard understanding the clients idea of what the piano should sound like and a lot of tuners are very reluctant to alter 35k of piano just in case the client is not happy.

The internet has made life more interesting with the sound of a piano, some clients now understand that the new piano that hey have is just a starting point, but it take good communications and time with the client to get the piano they love.

In most cases you are dealing with the lady of the house so its its a quick in out job if they are not the player and in the main they just want a quick service and are not interested in any extras.

So you need to talk to your tuner

Barrie,

[vernon]

First I must apologise for using the word "fiddling!"
However, I think purchasers must be made aware of certain truths.
As a gross generalisation, I have always suggested to pupils the following and wonder what others' observations are, given that the piano is properly regulated and tuned before you start.

Can you make the piano louder-- No
Softer? - Yes, for time
(That is a job for the pianist- Signor Cristofori spent quite a while building in that feature( ie pianoforte))
Can you make it brighter--Yes
Mellower Yes
Can you make the "tone" more even--Yes
Can you improve the Break--Often
Can you make the "touch" heavier/lighter- Not safely without massive retro-engineering.
The purchaser should have these questions attended to in the showroom and if he/she is not happy, then don't buy it.