Hello!
I'm new here, but I'm glad I found this forum. Lots of usefull stuff here.
I've read that P121 is nearly to U1 and WL 122 is also close to U1.
Direct comparison of P121 and WL 122 would be very interesting.
Which one would you recomend?
I am looking for a piano for my 7 year old daughter beginning musical education. Comments from the experienced forum users will be appreciated.
Thanks
Yamaha P121 vs. Wendl & Lung 122
Moderators: Feg, Gill the Piano, Melodytune
Hi piano444,
I have recently bought a W&L 122 for my 8 & 5 year old kids. My wife and I really love the fabulous sound, which is clear and bell-like. So far, my two children have been very enthusiastic practising on it and I am quite surprised by the keen interest from my younger one. I have no issues with it so far and find that it offers great value.
Hi PianoGuy,
You said the W&L 122 is a notch below Perzina, which is also China-made. The W&L is manufactured in the Hailun Ningbo factory, which is one of the most highly-automated and modern piano factory, according to what I have read in other forums.
Could you elaborate what you mean by "W&L are a notch behind". Are you referring to built quality, sound or other issues.
I have found a review of the W&L 122 on the following link whcih rated it highly, it seems:
http://www.lesmaitresdupiano.net/attach ... son-or.pdf
I have recently bought a W&L 122 for my 8 & 5 year old kids. My wife and I really love the fabulous sound, which is clear and bell-like. So far, my two children have been very enthusiastic practising on it and I am quite surprised by the keen interest from my younger one. I have no issues with it so far and find that it offers great value.
Hi PianoGuy,
You said the W&L 122 is a notch below Perzina, which is also China-made. The W&L is manufactured in the Hailun Ningbo factory, which is one of the most highly-automated and modern piano factory, according to what I have read in other forums.
Could you elaborate what you mean by "W&L are a notch behind". Are you referring to built quality, sound or other issues.
I have found a review of the W&L 122 on the following link whcih rated it highly, it seems:
http://www.lesmaitresdupiano.net/attach ... son-or.pdf
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Barrie Heaton
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One to add to your list are the new Kemble The Empire and The Prestige both now use a 121 back same as the K121CL
Barrie
Barrie
Barrie Heaton
Web Master UK Piano Page
Web Master UK Piano Page
Automation a good piano doth not make. Why do you think this is a good idea per se? Sound qualities are subjective, so that bit is down to you.raekeefe wrote: You said the W&L 122 is a notch below Perzina, which is also China-made. The W&L is manufactured in the Hailun Ningbo factory, which is one of the most highly-automated and modern piano factory, according to what I have read in other forums.
Could you elaborate what you mean by "W&L are a notch behind". Are you referring to built quality, sound or other issues.
Perzina (model 120) and Brodmann (121) are better than the W&L 122 on purely build quality issues. Don't misunderstand me, all three makes are contenders and W&L are getting better. Early W&Ls used copious quantities of what looked like reject matchwood for non-structural areas of the piano's structure; namely the keybed area and plinth-base. Structural rigidity is supplied by metal rails which appear inelegant. The pedal trapwork is flimsy and often noisy.
The action used in the Perzina is a Detoa-built (Czech) item of Perzina's design. It works very nicely, and far better than Detoa's own designs, so let's hope they learn a thing or two about their own trade. The action in the Brodmann is a Chinese-built Langer/Schwander which is as good as the British built ones of a decade or so ago. Both these actions are better than that used in the W&L, but much depends on dealer preparation. Both Brodmann and W&L require more dealer prep than Perzina, which are reasonably good out of the box. It's also fair to say that the Brodmann 125 is a less satisfactory overall design than the 121, and I'd rate that particular piano beneath the three in discussion here.
Barrie is making a good point in highlighting the excellent 121cm Kembles which beat all of the above , albeit at a higher price.
Hi PianoGuy,
I agree with you that about the keyboard area where I find a piece of chip-board covering right underneath the keyboard. It would have been better if they had used a solid plank as found in other similar class of pianos. But I don't think it is a major problem as it is merely used to cover an aluminium plate that lies between it and the keyboard. For the pedals, I have not found them to be "flimsy and often noisy"..............maybe I am lucky so far.
By the way, you seem to have a great deal of knowledgeable about piano construction. You have mentioned about the Perzina and its Detoa-action as well as the structural rigidity of the W&L and how metal rails are used. Is it also possible for you to shed more light about the action of W&L? Just want to know more about the piano as I am no expert, I must admit.
I agree with you that about the keyboard area where I find a piece of chip-board covering right underneath the keyboard. It would have been better if they had used a solid plank as found in other similar class of pianos. But I don't think it is a major problem as it is merely used to cover an aluminium plate that lies between it and the keyboard. For the pedals, I have not found them to be "flimsy and often noisy"..............maybe I am lucky so far.
By the way, you seem to have a great deal of knowledgeable about piano construction. You have mentioned about the Perzina and its Detoa-action as well as the structural rigidity of the W&L and how metal rails are used. Is it also possible for you to shed more light about the action of W&L? Just want to know more about the piano as I am no expert, I must admit.
I found retailers of Brodmann and Carl Ebel. It is supposed that Brodmann has Lager action. I asked for more info (and prices). It would be interesting to have them all in one showroom, side by side and try. Impossible, I'm afraid...
Thanks for your comments, especially to PG. I admire your patience in answering questions like mine.
Thanks for your comments, especially to PG. I admire your patience in answering questions like mine.
Carl Ebel is in fact a Perzina, so check it out!
Raekeefe.
I'm not sure who makes the actions for the W&L pianos. They may well be in-house designed and built. The Brodmann and Perzina probably use European designed items because the companies are in part European owned; Brodmann is Austrian/English and Perzina Chinese/Dutch.
Raekeefe.
I'm not sure who makes the actions for the W&L pianos. They may well be in-house designed and built. The Brodmann and Perzina probably use European designed items because the companies are in part European owned; Brodmann is Austrian/English and Perzina Chinese/Dutch.
Hello again!
After some weeks spent on research I've got four conclusions:
1. There is a difficult market around here, all I can get is mostly a piano straight from the box and tuning. Horrible.
2. Carl Ebel was a decoy, not available.
3. There is now b3 on the market. A guy from Yamaha told me, that P121 is not an option anymore, because b3 is just as good and cheaper. Besides, P121 is a bit off the budget - I hoped for a bigger discount. Still - only tuning...
4. With W&L I can get better service - tuning, regulation and voicing.
Please advise me what to do... Which one should I choose? Or maybe a Brodmann, nearly the same price as W&L? I'm confused.
How would you rank all those makes?
PianoGuy
I read you have seen b3. Is it worth £800 more than W&L (cose this is the price difference)?
After some weeks spent on research I've got four conclusions:
1. There is a difficult market around here, all I can get is mostly a piano straight from the box and tuning. Horrible.
2. Carl Ebel was a decoy, not available.
3. There is now b3 on the market. A guy from Yamaha told me, that P121 is not an option anymore, because b3 is just as good and cheaper. Besides, P121 is a bit off the budget - I hoped for a bigger discount. Still - only tuning...
4. With W&L I can get better service - tuning, regulation and voicing.
Please advise me what to do... Which one should I choose? Or maybe a Brodmann, nearly the same price as W&L? I'm confused.
How would you rank all those makes?
PianoGuy
I read you have seen b3. Is it worth £800 more than W&L (cose this is the price difference)?
Hello piano444!
If you tell us where you are, I'll give you the name of your closest Carl Ebel/Perzina dealer. They are definitely worth checking out.
The b3 is certainly a decent piano, but it's very obviously made to a lower grade than the P121 in Indonesia. (The P121 is of course a solid British-assembled Kemble with the wrong badge on it.) Casework is the most obvious compromise, which is of the cheapest grade, very simple in design, and not half as elegant as the P121. Not as gimcrack as previous generation Kawais for example, which are notoriously rattly and buzzy, but it would be interesting to see how the b3 lasts in heavy use. I'll certainly not be recommending them for school use in a hurry.
If you have the option of a Brodmann it's also worth considering, as long as it's the BU121 model. The BU125 is a poorer piano. The W&L is very impressive, but can suffer from flimsy casework in the less visible areas, and has brittle plastics in the pedal trapwork which can also be creaky.
Why is pre-sales service apparently compromised in your manor, Squire?
If you tell us where you are, I'll give you the name of your closest Carl Ebel/Perzina dealer. They are definitely worth checking out.
The b3 is certainly a decent piano, but it's very obviously made to a lower grade than the P121 in Indonesia. (The P121 is of course a solid British-assembled Kemble with the wrong badge on it.) Casework is the most obvious compromise, which is of the cheapest grade, very simple in design, and not half as elegant as the P121. Not as gimcrack as previous generation Kawais for example, which are notoriously rattly and buzzy, but it would be interesting to see how the b3 lasts in heavy use. I'll certainly not be recommending them for school use in a hurry.
If you have the option of a Brodmann it's also worth considering, as long as it's the BU121 model. The BU125 is a poorer piano. The W&L is very impressive, but can suffer from flimsy casework in the less visible areas, and has brittle plastics in the pedal trapwork which can also be creaky.
Why is pre-sales service apparently compromised in your manor, Squire?
PianoGuy quote:
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Structural rigidity is supplied by metal rails which appear inelegant.
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Hi PianoGuy,
This was what you have mentioned about the W&L 122. Could you tell me where these metal rails are? I have opened up the top and front cover of the piano and also, the cover below the keyboard. I also did a run through of the external casing but could not see the metal railings. Perhaps, I have looked at the wrong places. Please enlighten me. Thanks.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Structural rigidity is supplied by metal rails which appear inelegant.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Hi PianoGuy,
This was what you have mentioned about the W&L 122. Could you tell me where these metal rails are? I have opened up the top and front cover of the piano and also, the cover below the keyboard. I also did a run through of the external casing but could not see the metal railings. Perhaps, I have looked at the wrong places. Please enlighten me. Thanks.
Well, I don't know if you can help me this way, but no problem - I'm located near Warsaw, Poland.
Warsaw is a capital but on the other hand it is more like the end of the world when you want to find a few pianos to compare and buy one...
As far as Brodman is considered, it's PE121 that I found, not BU. Next model is PE 125. (http://www.brodmann-pianos.com/upright_piano_1211.html)
Does it make any difference?
Warsaw is a capital but on the other hand it is more like the end of the world when you want to find a few pianos to compare and buy one...
As far as Brodman is considered, it's PE121 that I found, not BU. Next model is PE 125. (http://www.brodmann-pianos.com/upright_piano_1211.html)
Does it make any difference?
Sorry, didn't see this!
I don't know the PE121. The "PE" stands for "Professional Edition" All the Brodmann Uprights I've seen in the UK are "BU"., but an ambiguous line in the new Brodmann website states thus:
Professional Edition (PE)
This Edition represents the current product line. We are not planning any additional models this year. However in 2008 we will introduce the first wood finish models in mahogany and walnut. The Professional Edition will continue to be fitted with top quality European parts as always.
I would guess that quality is comparable, and these may even be identical to the BU line. You could try and contact Colin Taylor colin.taylor@brodmann-pianos.com who is the European contact and ask him the question!
Best wishes,
PG
I don't know the PE121. The "PE" stands for "Professional Edition" All the Brodmann Uprights I've seen in the UK are "BU"., but an ambiguous line in the new Brodmann website states thus:
Professional Edition (PE)
This Edition represents the current product line. We are not planning any additional models this year. However in 2008 we will introduce the first wood finish models in mahogany and walnut. The Professional Edition will continue to be fitted with top quality European parts as always.
I would guess that quality is comparable, and these may even be identical to the BU line. You could try and contact Colin Taylor colin.taylor@brodmann-pianos.com who is the European contact and ask him the question!
Best wishes,
PG