looking to buy a new upright for about 5500 pounds

genaa · Post by **genaa** » 23 Nov 2006, 18:49

at present I am looking at either a Yamaha SU118C or perhaps the YUS3s both somewhat discounted but seem to come from a supplier offering good service and bespoke voicing and regulation.

Can folks offer any advice as to these 2 pianos or suggest alternatives I might also consider?

Great site by the way- extremely useful!!

Genaa

PianoGuy · Post by **PianoGuy** » 23 Nov 2006, 21:41

Good choices.

Buy the showroom model if you like it, and then you know it's a good one. Also try the new Zimmermann range from Bechstein, and the latest series of Kawais.

genaa · Post by **genaa** » 24 Nov 2006, 21:17

thanks for the heads up pianoguy.

Yes I fully intend taking serial number and ensuring I get the piano i play and decide I want.

Went to Chappells today and played on some yamaha models and some Kemble pianos. Anyone here own a YUS5 or U5 piano? I am quite keen to get a piano with Celeste rail whereas the YUS3 is sostenuto only unless opting for a silent model.

Can anyone recommend any reputable stockists of Bechstein, Zimmerman and Kawai pianos and any opinions on those pianos in the south? Have enquired as to price ranges from one online source about new Bechstein uprights such as Concert 8 but suspect well out of my price range at the moment!!

Thanks in advance.

Genaa

Post by **Barrie Heaton** » 25 Nov 2006, 18:35

genaa wrote:
Went to Chappells today and played on some yamaha models and some Kemble pianos. Anyone here own a YUS5 or U5 piano? I am quite keen to get a piano with Celeste rail whereas the YUS3 is sostenuto only unless opting for a silent model.

one can be fitted

genaa wrote: Can anyone recommend any reputable stockists of Bechstein, Zimmerman and Kawai pianos and any opinions on those pianos in the south? Have enquired as to price ranges from one online source about new Bechstein uprights such as Concert 8 but suspect well out of my price range at the moment!!

Thanks in advance.

Genaa

Countrywide pianos and Cheltenham Piano Centre

Both also stock Yamaha so you can do a side by side Cheltenham Piano Centre also stock Bluthners

http://www.cheltenham-piano-centre.co.uk/
http://www.countrywidepianos.co.uk/

Barrie,

PianoGuy · Post by **PianoGuy** » 25 Nov 2006, 20:19

genaa wrote: Went to Chappells today and played on some yamaha models and some Kemble pianos. Anyone here own a YUS5 or U5 piano? I am quite keen to get a piano with Celeste rail whereas the YUS3 is sostenuto only unless opting for a silent model.

The U series from U3 upwards is fitted with a sostenuto in the UK. Japanese U3s have a celeste, because their living conditions often require one! You could always track down a grey-imported Japanese U3, I suppose! Simplest would be to get one fitted as Barrie says. A good workshop will be conversant in this operation, although the celeste would be lever-operated.

Most UK-market U5s had (it's a discontinued model) a sostenuto pedal as a third pedal, but also a celeste operated by a toggle under the LH side of the keyboard. Are you sure you're not being short-changed!?

genaa wrote: Have enquired as to price ranges from one online source about new Bechstein uprights such as Concert 8 but suspect well out of my price range at the moment!!

The Concert 8 is a fine piano, but nowhere near as good as its price would suggest! The Zimmermanns are about 80% of the quality of Bechstein, but about 50% of the price. A different sound to the Yamaha, but really rather good! You should certainly try and track one down if you have this sort of budget to spend, although you may have to talk nicely to the dealer to get a discount. You're not in Yamaha territory here!

genaa · Post by **genaa** » 26 Nov 2006, 10:49

Cheers for the feedback folks. I will certainly get myself along to both the dealers recommended Barrie and will also try and get a look in at a Zimmerman too.

Kawai K6 is also a possibility though I note the raging debate elsewhere about abs versus wood etc and longevity issues etc.

Hopefully gf has bought winning lottery ticket for the weekend in which case I will just go find the elusive Bosendorfer 130. An ex gf's father had one and I have to say it was a very nice sound indeed hehe.

Oh well time to come back down to earth again.

Cheers,

Genaa

genaa · Post by **genaa** » 28 Nov 2006, 21:48

Played a zimmerman Z1 earlier this week and liked it a lot. I am still ideally looking for a piano that will offer me both sostenuto if poss and a celeste rail, which sadly the zimmerman does not as standard.

you mention that celeste rails can be fitted quite easily - what kind of cost to retrofit a lever operated celeste to a new upright?

Choice otherwise appears to be moving inexorably to YUS5 or moving my neighbours out/buying them all earplugs for those times when I play (was going to say at night but to be honest probably all the time these days!!)

Cheers,

Genaa

Post by **Gill the Piano** » 29 Nov 2006, 17:43

Pianoforte in Faringdon isn't far from you, and they stock Zimmermanns. I am at the point where either I have my Bluthner upright rebuilt OR get a new piano. And until I played the Zimmermanns, I was resolute about getting the rebuild, but I think the Zimmermanns are lovely, and a far better tone than the Bechsteins! It's all personal opinion though.

genaa · Post by **genaa** » 30 Nov 2006, 00:43

cheers Gill, will certainly give them a look in as I am often travelling up that way.

Not sure I can stretch to the Zimmerman Z1 which is the one i would like but depends - have been quoted list price of about 8000 by Foulds and one for about 6500 in Countrywide. Definitely sounds nice though. Only drawback I can see is that I would like both celeste and sostenuto or silent play feature and sostenuto - could get a vario zimmerman but that would almost certainly be out of my price bracket then.

Got prices for Bechsteins. I cried hehe!

Genaa

PianoGuy · Post by **PianoGuy** » 30 Nov 2006, 08:38

You'd cry if you actually bought a Bechstein. Worst value piano on the planet. The Zimmermann is so, so close in quality, but at such a fair price.

A lever-operated celeste would likely cost about 200 to 250 quid to retrofit.

genaa · Post by **genaa** » 30 Nov 2006, 14:23

A lever-operated celeste would likely cost about 200 to 250 quid to retrofit.

Would that be labour and materials or labour only do you suppose?

Cheers,

Genaa

genaa · Post by **genaa** » 02 Dec 2006, 21:06

mmmm i think i have found the piano i am after!

Kawai K6 with sostenuto and lever operated celeste.

just a few more yamaha to try next week then hopefully a nice new shiny black xmas pressie!

(and the start of being the adult learner surrounded by genius 8 year olds after a 15 years plus playing absence hehe!)

thanks to all for the advice, suggestions etc.

One question - how does the duplex scale work and what does it add in terms of both tone and tuning issues? Do they represent more work for tuners or do people have happy enough experiences of tuning them, abs etc and all?

Cheers,

Genaa

PianoGuy · Post by **PianoGuy** » 03 Dec 2006, 22:19

genaa wrote:
One question - how does the duplex scale work and what does it add in terms of both tone and tuning issues? Do they represent more work for tuners or do people have happy enough experiences of tuning them, abs etc and all?

The latest Kawais are great. No tuning issues, and the ABS carbon action is strong and works well. Shame it's taken them so long in years of second rate Yamaha copies to arrive finally at a design that is worthy of praise in itself. The K6 is a good design and very well built.

The duplex is a section of string behind (beneath in an upright) the soundboard bridge which resonates in sympathy with the sounding part of the string. Provided it's set up correctly at the factory (not sure about Kawai, but Yamahas usually aren't!) it'll be in tune automatically, because it works by being a calculated fraction of the string's length. In terms of tone, it usually adds a bit of brightness, because it accentuates the upper harmonics. It's all highly subjective however. As mentioned, Yamaha duplexes are rarely correctly set up, but they still sound fine. Forget all the quasi-technical crap and rest assured you're buying a good piano. Make sure you buy the actual one you fell in love with though!

genaa · Post by **genaa** » 04 Dec 2006, 00:55

hehe cheers for putting my mind at rest pg. i am so close to getting a yus5 or u5 but on hearing them played better than i currently can play at the weekend i feel they are probably just too big a voice for the size of room i have available and I don't want to completely alienate the neighbours or knock their ornaments off the shelf through the wall!

Am going to try a few more just to see but think i have mostly made up my mind now!

thanks for the duplex info - i guess if i go with the k6 i will have to await the verdict of the tuner as to whether or not it has been scaled appropriately - back to the tuner top 10 hates thread hehe

Cheers,

Genaa

sirprize · Post by **sirprize** » 05 Dec 2006, 23:04

Here's a very unusual alternative to the Kwaks & Yams etc: Ladbrooke Pianos of Birmingham have recently received a second hand, mint condition Broadwood Barless upright in black polyester finish. My guess is they will sell it at around the £5500-6000 mark

Ladbrookes themselves hand-built this full-height piano and here's the story behind it: http://www.ladbrookepianos.co.uk/Broadw ... adwood.htm
I tried the same model a year ago and it's a FABULOUS piano. I seriously considered buying a new one myself (they make a handful every year to special order) but I've bought an amazing sounding, custom-rebuilt, 1920s Bechstein Model C 7ft 4" Grand instead!

Whoever manages to get the Barless is a lucky person. I've never seen a s/h one come onto the market

PianoGuy · Post by **PianoGuy** » 06 Dec 2006, 00:01

sirprize wrote:Here's a very unusual alternative to the Kwaks & Yams etc: Ladbrooke Pianos of Birmingham have recently received a second hand, mint condition Broadwood Barless upright in black polyester finish. My guess is they will sell it at around the ?5500-6000 mark

I bet they'll be asking far more but it'll sell for far less. It's a great design, but built rather poorly. I remember seeing one at a trade show in Birmingham. Casework like cellulite and the (only a Schwander) action fitted with standard Abels and regulated not at all well. The asking price new was in Bechstein territory, so fine if you fancy chucking cash away.

sirprize wrote:Whoever manages to get the Barless is a lucky person. I've never seen a s/h one come onto the market

That's probably because they've only made half a dozen. Luck is debatable.

sirprize · Post by **sirprize** » 07 Dec 2006, 13:15

Oops sorry.....rang Ladbrookes today and the Barless had sold almost immediately. They're like gold dust. Only about 30 made so far and extremely rarely available s/h. If you ever get a chance try one

sirprize · Post by **sirprize** » 07 Dec 2006, 13:17

Ha ha ha ha Piano Guy you crack me up! Actually it sold for £5500

PianoGuy · Post by **PianoGuy** » 07 Dec 2006, 14:19

If they're that good, maybe they should make a few more!!

genaa · Post by **genaa** » 16 Dec 2006, 10:12

thanks for all your input folks - i am now the proud new owner of a beautiful sounding Kawai K6 with sostenuto pedal. I am in love and already starting to feel sorry for my neighbours hehe!

my 15 year wait to own a piano again is over and now the hard work starts

now where did i leave that old copy of "learn to play the mephisto waltz in 400 million not so easy steps"???

Cheers all.

genaa · Post by **genaa** » 31 Mar 2008, 21:51

Having begun settling into the new piano we had the misfortune of a minor flood caused by a faulty plumbing installation. The piano itself did not get wet and within the space of about a week was removed and taken to storage with a reputable firm recommended by our insurer.

The piano was absent for a little over 3 months whilst the necessary repairs and redecoration was done and having been allowed to settle back in for a couple of months I have had the tuner out to give it some tender loving care. Sadly he had some rather bad news for me.....

I had noticed the piano had picked up some unpleasant inharmonic ringing around the junction of bass and tenor bridge but figured this was simply a tuning issue that he would be able to correct. To my dismay he informed me that this was most likely caused by a combination of the damp in the room before the piano was able to be collected to storage, the dehumidifiers placed and used by the insurance company to dry the room during the week or so the piano was in situ, and the change in temp/humidity at the storage place. In short - a problem he could seek to alleviate but could never completely remove. It seems the bridge/soundboard may have moved ever so slightly, causing a ghosting effect and disharmonious ringing above certain notes when played and released

It now looks as though I may have to approach my insurance company in the hope they will stump up for a replacement instrument or live with the fact that the piano may always now have either an unpleasant ringing on some notes and be more prone to tuning problems in that area in future. I am gutted but wonder whether anyone else has experience of such things and can offer any advice as to possible alternative solutions. Is my piano now a liability or can it be cured??

Hoping someone can help!

Grenache · Post by **Grenache** » 31 Mar 2008, 22:25

Hi genaa,

I had the same problem a couple of years ago, when my (8 month old) central heating boiler burst. The paino itself didn't get wet, but sat in a very wet room for a few days in the middle of winter, before the dehumidifiers were brought in by the insurance company.

In the end, the insurance company agreed to replace it, as my tuner/tech said that it would not be economical to repair.

G

genaa · Post by **genaa** » 31 Mar 2008, 22:30

Hi Grenache,

The tuner has told me he does not consider the fault economically viable to repair as it would basically require shipping the piano back to the factory (Japan) and having it taken apart and the soundboard repositioned. He is going to send me a report stating that and that he will revisit in about 4 weeks to see whether there is any change in the instrument, then I guess it is time to see the insurers. Did you have a mighty struggle with your insurer or were they reasonable in accepting that the instrument needed replacement?

Cheers,

Grenache · Post by **Grenache** » 31 Mar 2008, 22:44

Hi again

No, the insurance co were ok, they asked for a written report from the tuner to confirm the piano's condition, and two quotes from dealers indicating the price for a replacement of similar quality to the original, new for old.

G

genaa · Post by **genaa** » 01 Apr 2008, 18:27

fingers crossed I have a similarly understanding insurance company!

genaa · Post by **genaa** » 20 Apr 2008, 22:28

well my technician came back today and as glumly expected pronounced a virtual death sentence on the piano. Not so much dying as already dead

I was not altogether surprised as the wowy sustain in the bass/tenor area even with dampers on strings was becoming ever more pronounced and it was all but impossible to actually hear a tone in the bottom 3 notes A0 upwards

So...... it looks like the piano search begins all over again - should I simply aim for another Kawai K6? Can I afford to look at the likes of 122 Schimmel and Sauter and if so - should I? Could I get a deal on one of those or perhaps a Zimmerman Z1 ?? Yikes - the merry-go-round is spinning once again

All that assuming the insurance company don't simply insist on an identical model replacement - I am hoping not as what if I cannot find another K6 I like the sound of - or a dealer who will stock more than one or two for me to try... Eeeek!

Any recommendations for good dealerships for the above?

PianoGuy · Post by **PianoGuy** » 20 Apr 2008, 22:41

genaa wrote:
Any recommendations for good dealerships for the above?

How about the one who supplied your K6. You seemed happy with it.

Openwood · Post by **Openwood** » 20 Apr 2008, 23:22

I've used Pianoforte in Farringdon and found them to be excellent, particularly with after-sales care. Claire Dash is still in charge there, I think. Also, I tried the current selection of Kemble and Yamaha uprights in Chappells last week and (imo) some of their secondhand uprights beat the new ones hands down. In particular there was a secondhand Kemble Conservatoire in a lightish brown matt finish which I thought was outstanding (and usually I don't like Kembles). Might be worth a visit. Wish I'd known about that Kemble six months ago

Post by **Barrie Heaton** » 20 Apr 2008, 23:24

genaa wrote:fingers crossed I have a similarly understanding insurance company!

I go out a lot for insurance company's for water damage pianos done 3 this month When I do a report for the client I put the recommend replacement and the RRP value I have not had one report questioned by an insurance company they go with what I recommend

Sadly I have been out to some very foolish folk who have pored water inside the piano and when I do a suspect fraudulent report they lose the real part and can end up in court.

Barrie,

genaa · Post by **genaa** » 21 Apr 2008, 07:59

hi folks,

thanks for the replies and advice. If I opt for another K6 then yes I would certainly go to Claire in Faringdon again. I don't really get enthused about the sound of the Yamaha uprights they all sound very bright to my mind - the Kawai sounded more mellow, darker perhaps in the tenor and bass sections. Chappells is a lovely store however - I pop in quite regularly to pick up sheet music and browse!

I have been looking at the Schimmel and Sauter as possible alternatives as I did not try either previously suspecting they would be somewhat out of my original price range. I have found a Schimmel dealer relatively close to where I work in Surrey so will hopefully try there but it appears the closest Sauter dealer with a reasonable stocklist appears to be Headingley in Leeds! Should I make the trip or can anyone recommend a good Sauter stockist a little closer to home (Winchester)?

Horrified at the thought of somebody deliberately pouring water into a piano Barrie - serves them right if they did not succeed in whatever scam they were pulling. I can assure you I am genuinely gutted at watching my 18 month old pristine piano deteriorate - particularly after thinking we had managed to avoid any damage during the flood

I am putting a brave face on however and trying to ensure that I get the best possible replacement - whether another K6 or other instrument.

A440 · Post by **A440** » 04 May 2008, 23:00

I think Sauter is the best choice in this price range. The build quality is amazing and the clarity of sound is really unlike anything else. They do some incredible art-cased instruments and even their standard shaped uprights have a certain stylish proportion. They are remarkable instruments from an outstanding maker.
Play one then decide.

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looking to buy a new upright for about 5500 pounds

looking to buy a new upright for about 5500 pounds

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