Hi there,
I bought a keyboard about 6 months ago, and i've been playing about an hour a day most days. I haven't gotten round to getting a piano teacher as I thought i'd just work through a couple of books i bought, which has been working quite reasonably. One problem that I have come across though not having someone to talk to about my keyboard technique, is the hand positions for playing chords . I'm currently learning Scarborough Fair, in which two of the chords they use are F and Dm. For F, they say to use 4,2,1. For Dm, they say to use 5,2,1. When playing i found that switching from Dm to F as per their recommendation was a bit uncomfortable. I then tried F using 5,3,1, as the chord was almost the same shape other than using finger 3 rather than 2. Is this a bad technique even though it's more comfortable? Is it bad practice to not have standardized shapes and fingers for each chord? I don't have an issue learning to do it like they say, but i'm wondering whether there is a reason for this, or if it just comes down to personal preference. I want to make sure i'm learning the correct way so it doesn't hinder my development.
Sorry this is going to be a bit long I have another question...
One last thing which has been troubling me. I find that sometimes when i'm playing notes with RH, there are ones which are part of a chord i'm playing with my LH. Do i need to move my chords down the keyboard to a different octave? Or do i just forget about playing that note with my RH because i've already hit it as part of my LH chord? Or maybe theres a technique i have overlooked?
I would appreciate it so much if someone had the time to asnwer my queries. Thanks very much for reading.
Few chord related questions :)
Moderators: Feg, Gill the Piano
Fingering is a personal issue and very often the personal editting or arranging the music is only making suggestions to help you perform more efficiently.
If you're moving from F to Dm, it seems that the arrangement is trying to help you find the nearby chord, without having to move your hand around too much and helping make the performance more fluid. Having said that, the fingering for F seems odd. It could depend on what has come before this point in the music.... It would seem easier to use 5, 3, 1 going to the Dm but then again, it depends on what is coming next - where do your fingers have to be after this bit?
Judging from your post, I take it that you are reading using a fake book, i.e. a right hand part with chords written above and that you are playing melody with the right hand, and chorded left hand accompaniment? Let me know if this is the case 'cos that will affect what I will advise you regarding the chords and left hand playing.
If you're moving from F to Dm, it seems that the arrangement is trying to help you find the nearby chord, without having to move your hand around too much and helping make the performance more fluid. Having said that, the fingering for F seems odd. It could depend on what has come before this point in the music.... It would seem easier to use 5, 3, 1 going to the Dm but then again, it depends on what is coming next - where do your fingers have to be after this bit?
Judging from your post, I take it that you are reading using a fake book, i.e. a right hand part with chords written above and that you are playing melody with the right hand, and chorded left hand accompaniment? Let me know if this is the case 'cos that will affect what I will advise you regarding the chords and left hand playing.
Thanks mark
Yes you would be correct about this 'fake' book, in that it doesn't have a bass clef, rather the chord is displayed above the treble clef. Which then leads me to realise that in music with both treble and clef music bars, this 'collision' would not happen i would think. What's the best way to combat it then while using this beginners book? In regards to your question about what is coming next in the chord progression, it more or less just switches from F, Dm, G, and Am. I just found my variation of Dm -> F, or F -> Dm, a lot easier to play. But i just wasn't sure whether this was good practice or not, to be taking the easier finger position.
Thanks for your reply.
Yes you would be correct about this 'fake' book, in that it doesn't have a bass clef, rather the chord is displayed above the treble clef. Which then leads me to realise that in music with both treble and clef music bars, this 'collision' would not happen i would think. What's the best way to combat it then while using this beginners book? In regards to your question about what is coming next in the chord progression, it more or less just switches from F, Dm, G, and Am. I just found my variation of Dm -> F, or F -> Dm, a lot easier to play. But i just wasn't sure whether this was good practice or not, to be taking the easier finger position.
Thanks for your reply.
When you are using chords to help you read music, you are essentally making up the rest of the music, based on the chord written above the music.
There are a number of ways to do this, but from a beginner's perspective, this would be the easiest way. If for example, "F" is written above the music, you can try and play as much of the F chord as possible with your right hand as well as the melody and play the route note of the chord as your bass (left hand part). Doing this means that you will have to think about how to voice your chord, For example, the the melody starts on F and moves up the way, it would be wrong to try playing the F, A, C form of the chord because the melody would be stumbling through the chord on the right hand. Doing it this way means that your 4th and 5th fingers carry most of the melody at the top of the chord, and your inversions of the chord basically need to be applied so that the chord and melody don't get in eachother's way!
Try it this way and you should notice it sounding much more musical rather than like thunder clattering over the top of a melody.
There are a number of ways to do this, but from a beginner's perspective, this would be the easiest way. If for example, "F" is written above the music, you can try and play as much of the F chord as possible with your right hand as well as the melody and play the route note of the chord as your bass (left hand part). Doing this means that you will have to think about how to voice your chord, For example, the the melody starts on F and moves up the way, it would be wrong to try playing the F, A, C form of the chord because the melody would be stumbling through the chord on the right hand. Doing it this way means that your 4th and 5th fingers carry most of the melody at the top of the chord, and your inversions of the chord basically need to be applied so that the chord and melody don't get in eachother's way!
Try it this way and you should notice it sounding much more musical rather than like thunder clattering over the top of a melody.
If you were to look very closely at hymnals and identify the notes being played in a hymn, you would be surprised how much of the melody and harmony is based on the principals of chords anyway.
Even rather technical classical music can be analysed in the same way to identify the presence of chords (I, IV, V, etc.)
Even rather technical classical music can be analysed in the same way to identify the presence of chords (I, IV, V, etc.)
hi irish...
i cant stress this enough, use what comes natural to you... fingering is only a guide not a rule, even when playing classical music you will find many fingering methods that you will simply find dont feel comfortable.
try to avoid thinking about fingering too much and concentrate on the playing, just let the fingers find the notes... like i said, no one can say to you that fingering is wrong or right, whatever feels comfortable.
as a guide, f to dm in the left hand in root positions would probably be 1,2,4 to 1,3,5. however, you could just use 1,2,4 for both chords and let the pedal sustain the notes for you as you jump between chords. like i said, what sounds right and what feels comfortable.
as for your other question, try not to play every note of the chord in the left hand; for now, try to just play the root or the root and fifth and let the right hand play the rest of the notes and the melody.
the best bit of advice i can give you with chords is to keep on experimenting with different patterns of the same chord and stick with what sounds best
i cant stress this enough, use what comes natural to you... fingering is only a guide not a rule, even when playing classical music you will find many fingering methods that you will simply find dont feel comfortable.
try to avoid thinking about fingering too much and concentrate on the playing, just let the fingers find the notes... like i said, no one can say to you that fingering is wrong or right, whatever feels comfortable.
as a guide, f to dm in the left hand in root positions would probably be 1,2,4 to 1,3,5. however, you could just use 1,2,4 for both chords and let the pedal sustain the notes for you as you jump between chords. like i said, what sounds right and what feels comfortable.
as for your other question, try not to play every note of the chord in the left hand; for now, try to just play the root or the root and fifth and let the right hand play the rest of the notes and the melody.
the best bit of advice i can give you with chords is to keep on experimenting with different patterns of the same chord and stick with what sounds best
If you are wanting to improve your technique, you should at least attempt the set fingerings and see how they go. By that I don't mean try once or twice and then give up. The fingerings are not written by muppets and mostly have an inherent technique attached to them. If you have to change anything, make small changes. It's after expanding your experience that you can make sensible and intuitive alterations to fingerings of pieces that have hardly any fingering guidelines if any at all.
Are you using a progressive book like "The Complete Keyboard Player"? If so, the pieces will be offering you a progression and will be trying to reinforce some good habits in preparation for the more difficult pieces.
If you are wanting to take formal lessons later on, doing completely your own thing as far as fingering goes will prove to be a disadvantage to you when the advised fingerings on classical/examination piano pieces are, more often than not, pretty accurate with only the need for minor alterations - I'm assuming that attending piano lessons is still your goal? If so, just be very careful with playing what feels 'comfortable' to you at this early stage.
Are you using a progressive book like "The Complete Keyboard Player"? If so, the pieces will be offering you a progression and will be trying to reinforce some good habits in preparation for the more difficult pieces.
If you are wanting to take formal lessons later on, doing completely your own thing as far as fingering goes will prove to be a disadvantage to you when the advised fingerings on classical/examination piano pieces are, more often than not, pretty accurate with only the need for minor alterations - I'm assuming that attending piano lessons is still your goal? If so, just be very careful with playing what feels 'comfortable' to you at this early stage.
keyboard chords
COming in late at this point, regarding the "collision" of your left and right hand..........do you have the keyboard "split" as is intended for this method of playing?
The keyboard will have a split point (which should be adjustable). There may be a button which says "ACCMP ON" or "FINGERED CHORDS". When activated, the lower octave and a half will become a second keyboard in effect, and rather than playing your chords around the middle C area of the whole keyboard, you should play them an octave lower. The 2nd C note on the keyboard will have become another middle C, thus keeping your left hand and right hand apart, and avoiding "grumpy" sounding chords.
The keyboard will have a split point (which should be adjustable). There may be a button which says "ACCMP ON" or "FINGERED CHORDS". When activated, the lower octave and a half will become a second keyboard in effect, and rather than playing your chords around the middle C area of the whole keyboard, you should play them an octave lower. The 2nd C note on the keyboard will have become another middle C, thus keeping your left hand and right hand apart, and avoiding "grumpy" sounding chords.
Full time private music teacher on the Fylde Coast - piano and organ.