Kemble vs. Irmler

[piano kate]

I am considering buying either a new Kemble conservatoire or an Irmler P122. Can anyone give me any advice on which as I am undecided. I really liked the tone of the Irmler but am still not sure...

[PianoGuy]

Irmlers are either nasty Polish things (Irmler Europe) or run of the mill Pearl River Chinese things.

Do not even consider one, since either variety is available unbranded (or lesser-branded) dirt cheap if you don't pay for the Blüthner hype.

A Kemble is quality at a sensible price.

[mdw]

as I am undecided. I really liked the tone of the Irmler but am still not sure...

Irmlers are either nasty Polish things (Irmler Europe) or run of the mill Pearl River Chinese things.

Do not even consider one, since either variety is available unbranded (or lesser-branded) dirt cheap if you don't pay for the Blüthner hype.

A Kemble is quality at a sensible price.

If you like the Irmler tone and there arent too many other bits you dont like then find the cheaper pearl river piano and buy that!!! Of course, you are paying for the Bluthner set up and prep with the Irmler so dont expect it to be the same piano. Thats why it cost more.

Does this not show how close the quality is becoming when only a tech can say they are different and the public cant see it unless they are good pianists.
Yes the Kemble is a nicer bit of kit but if it takes a tech to say so!!! Its like saying a BMW is better than a SKoda. They both do the job of being a car and getting you from A-B just as well. Just one with a bit more refinement.

[PianoGuy]

Of course, you are paying for the Bluthner set up and prep with the Irmler so dont expect it to be the same piano. Thats why it cost more.

I have seen little evidence of Blüthner set up and prep with the Europe (Polski) models. The Pearl-River based ones are very nicely sorted though.

Terribly overpriced in both cases. I have heard rumours that the Irmler range is to be heavily revised soon, and the dreadful Polish models axed. Let's hope so.

[piano kate]

Thanks, do you have an idea about how much is sensible to pay for a Kemble conservatoire?

[mdw]

£4000 plus a bit for delivery is about what it should be. Bit more for Polyester. Any one too cheap is probably trying to delay bankrupcy by bailing out stock. Remember your guarantee is with the dealer so go for someone who will still be around next year.

[piano kate]

Thanks, that's helped me to decide. I shall go with the Kemble.
It's really difficult to know which piano to buy and whether you are getting a good deal but you guys have no axe to grind, so thanks for the advice! Hopefully it will give me many years of happy playing

[vernon]

I agree very cut price pianos can herald an imminent bankruptcy.
Some of us are piano dealers as well as technician/tuners so we know both sides of the counter. Incidentaly, we've been around ( at least grandpa etc)selling pianos for 175 years so hope to still be here next year!
For around £4000 you can get a Yamaha ( Pearl River) or a Kawai K3.
£3000-ish will get you a Weber or Gors and Kallmann-all regulated, tuned and delivered.
vernon

[PianoGuy]

Thanks, that's helped me to decide. I shall go with the Kemble.
It's really difficult to know which piano to buy and whether you are getting a good deal but you guys have no axe to grind, so thanks for the advice! Hopefully it will give me many years of happy playing

I'm sure it will. The Conservatoire's a superb piano.

You're also keeping Britons in employment.

[piano kate]

Have been given a very good deal from Headingley pianos so am looking forward to playing my new piano in a couple of weeks or so.

Thanks everyone

[mdw]

You're also keeping Britons in employment.

Well sort of

[mdw]

Have been given a very good deal from Headingley pianos

So hes listing at £3999 on the web and says 20 discount on Bluthners and kembles over easter. I will assume thats off rrp. And delivering, free stool, tuning etc. Great deal from your point of view....................

[piano kate]

(Yes, off rrp.) I thought so...

[PianoGuy]

You're also keeping Britons in employment.

Well sort of

It's the best we can hope for these days I'm afraid!

[vernon]

bell pianos will give you a better deal than that. email Gordon on;

gt.bell@btinternet.com
vernon

[mdw]

bell pianos will give you a better deal than thatvernon

Last time I spoke to kembles about dealers giving pianos away they assured me their dealers were behaving in a sensible manner, guess not.

[vernon]

or try;

info@gordonbellpianos.com for a good deal on kembles

vernon

[mdw]

I was asked to compete against a Glasgow dealer ( trading for 140 years Blah blah blah ) recently quoting silly prices, turns out he wasnt getting stock from Kembles as they had put a stop on his account. Also check the small print as the Glasgow dealer was stating when pushed that he only guarantees for 1 year outside his area.
You are probably best speaking to Kembles to make sure who ever supplies you getting supplied by Kembles . Or put your deposit down by credit card so you are covered.
Remember the good deal is one where the supplier and customer are both happy .

[PianoGuy]

A bit strong suggesting another dealer after the forum member has made her decision about where to buy and done the deal don't you think, Vernon !?

[vernon]

piano guy
I think mdw' s reply sums it up nicely.
vernon

[piano kate]

Just like to say that I am happy with my deal and have no intention of changing it

Thanks for all the advice on payment and guarantees etc.

[piano kate]

Just like to say that I am happy with my deal and have no intention of changing it

Thanks for all the advice on payment and guarantees etc.

[PianoGuy]

You must be happy!

You seem to have bought two!

[piano kate]

[A440]

Yes, it's a great piano and you ARE keeping brits in the piano trade (the last remaining factory).
As far as all the squabbling of some dealers goes, what a sad state of affairs. It seems rather forgotten that some piano shops want to supply a good piano with on-going service for the future. It's not because it screws someone else but simply because it feels good to supply a good product at a fair price. Yes we all have to make money but I like to think we don't need it so much that we forget we are all in the same trade and simply supplying a beautiful object which hopefully brings joy to others.
I know I'll get laughed at and beaten down by the synical dealers, but that's how I see it !
You got a great piano, Kate, and that's all that matters,. See you on delivery!

[mdw]

It's not because it screws someone else but simply because it feels good to supply a good product at a fair price.

As a business man it feels good to me to make more profit rather than less, kinda thought that was the point. I find the bank wont take a warm fuzzy feeling instead of a mortgage payment.


Any one for a price war !!!!!!!!!!!!!

[A440]

As a human and a business man, I get a bigger kick out of the fuzzy feeling. That's kind of the point.
You'll never get rich quick with pianos, that's not why we do it.
I love pianos and can't get away from the blasted things even if I wanted to!
Try retraining in estate agency! That may well make you happier.

[mdw]

Try retraining in estate agency! That may well make you happier.

You sound a little tetchy yourself!!! No, thankyou for your deep concern and careers advice but I shall stay in the piano trade. Been in it for too long to stop now.

[piano kate]

As a business man it feels good to me to make more profit rather than less, kinda thought that was the point.

It's all very well making the maximum amount of profit but if that means that your customer can't afford to buy it from you then you won't make any profit at all!

[mdw]

[quote="piano kateIt's all very well making the maximum amount of profit but if that means that your customer can't afford to buy it from you then you won't make any profit at all![/quote]
Firstly i didnt say anything about the maximum amount of profit those are your words not mine. What I am talking about is a sensible amount of profit and also an honest profit. If I want to I could sell pianos for cost plus 5%. I could tell you to go try in another dealers showroom and then I will sell you what you want. ( this has been gone over before, read the old threads). I own my own premesis so all ive got to do is cover the rates and electric etc. I dont even need wages from it as I tune most of the week. What would have happened if the price was £300 higher. You would still have bought the piano or at worst the next model down. I very much doubt you would have given up playing the piano. But it would have made a huge difference to the dealers profit margin.

By going down the price slasher route you end up with a few dealers selling the stock cheaply but you have to travel miles to try ( yams). Or and this is the big problem for the public, models only available through one outlet. (price fixing big time but legally) Look at electric goods and you will see some models only available at currys. Most cheapy pianos come from a small number of factorys but look at all the brand names. The trade will know they are the same kit off the same lines but you the pubic dont unless you have a keen eye and too much time on your hands.

It would be interesting to know how much of his profit you think he gave away and if you think it was worth it for giving a 10 year guarantee, delivery, tuning etc.