What type of piano shop do customers want.

[mdw]

This is a question for both public and trade but probably mainly public.

If the options for buying a piano were
(A) Travel 35-45 miles to a shop to select from 18-20 pianos .
(B) Travel 5-10 miles to the same selection in the same size space decour etc but in a showroom down a private drive way behind a private residence.
Or (C)buy off the net using price as the deciding point ( possably having tried the piano elsewhere at friends house other shop etc).

Pianos would be 2nd hand 10-25 years old and new, same selection , prep, delivery ,tuning and guarantee at all 3 options. 2nd hand £850-£2500 new £1800-£5000 price bracket.

If your piano would be in a higher price bracket could you state that as it would affect your buying method.

(A) would be more expensive than (B) which would cost more than (C).

What would your prefered method of buying your piano be. It would be really interesting to know what your honest answers are to this and any reasons why which answer please. Also can you see your chosen option changing in the future 1-8 years.

Many thanks

[Barrie Heaton]

You have missed out the fastest growing one

Go to a Wearhouse in the middle of an industrial estate no frills and manly just one brand on show.

I know that 5-10 new pianos a week leave the North of England for the south manly London and the buyers has never seen the piano.

And since Jan this year I must have seen 7 new pianos that have come the other way form dealers in the south who have asked me to tune the piano for them and not one of the clients have looked at the piano before it arrived

Barrie,

[Openwood]

So much would depend on what I wanted to buy. I wouldn't go for C, that's for sure. If I were looking for a piano in the price brackets you describe, B sounds like the least hassle and it would probably feel more personal.

Having said that, the next piano I buy is probably going to be in the 20-25K bracket (not for some time yet, I hasten to add) and for that kind of investment I would go the Big Name shops like Bluthner in London, but I'd also make sure that I visited someone with an impeccable reputation like Jeff Shackell. I'd drive pretty much any distance to try a piano he'd worked on.

Controversial statement: Is there really any need to try a new - let's say Yamaha C6 - that is being supplied by a dealer with an excellent track record?

[mdw]

Controversial statement: Is there really any need to try a new - let's say Yamaha C6 - that is being supplied by a dealer with an excellent track record?

Would that fall into the (C) section then. ie you would spend that amount of money, Yam C6 sight unseen on new product if the dealer had a good reputation.

[markymark]

I suppose it really does depend on what I wanted to buy.
As Openwood has said, I really wouldn't buy blind if purchasing an acoustic piano so option C wouldn't be all that appealing to me. Option B may be okay, provided that you can get parked at the showroom and also so long as the lane is not long and windy. No one appreciates the whole mounting the grass verge to let on-coming cars pass. Having said that, I did follow option A and drove 30 miles to try out acoustic pianos, and I also bought from the same shop. Granted, that was because my local retailer hardly carried anything!

I like the idea of the industrial estate locations as these are becoming more popular. I have come across retailers setting up businesses successfully in those areas. I'm personally not overly fussed about nice décor and 'homeliness' in a showroom - I prefer space and the option to talk to other people about my opinions of an instrument honestly without offending anyone! Range of stock is more important to me but obviously, you also have to think about your budget and insurance costs incurred by carrying more stock too. You also have more free publicity in a good industrial estate, that is one with plenty of other businesses around. Using Option B would require you to think carefully about advertising so that people knew where you were and how to get to your private showroom.

I think Starland Plus, formerly Keyboards Direct, have both showroom and online services and operate successfully in this way. This also allows them to dabble with digital piano, the latter of which is mostly purchased online due to their consistent and fairly predictable quality. They also carry sound modules and rack models which could be displayed and others ordered on request which is also a popular trend with local retailers. This is where option C will work better for you than with acoustic stock.

Is it possible to set up a predominantly acoustic piano showroom and then dabble with some popular digital stock (you make up the ratio), with the possibility of permitting online digital purchases and maybe even acoustic sales, depending on the demand, for those insane members of the public who obviously know nothing about the nature of acoustic pianos?

One thing about online purchasing is that you have the option to sell beyond the UK if you wish, which your showroom on some high-street won't, by itself that is!

[markymark]

Controversial statement: Is there really any need to try a new - let's say Yamaha C6 - that is being supplied by a dealer with an excellent track record?

Would that fall into the (C) section then. ie you would spend that amount of money, Yam C6 sight unseen on new product if the dealer had a good reputation.

Reputation is definitely important. The guy I by-passed in my local area was ignored because his attitude sucked! He would go behind the counter and peer out between the curtains at the back while people were looking at his stock, thinking that customers couldn't see his silhouette from the light shinining in the back window! No one wants to trade with someone like that! He was also known for over-charging and making false assurances that his prices were the cheapest in the area - NOT!

Needless to say, business is slow in his shop, whereas the other one I mentioned is normally hiving with people.

[mdw]

Thankyou for you replys.
Just a few more questions
When looking at pianos how many pianos would you like to see displayed?
Would you like to see 3 brands but every model size or many more brands but perhaps only 1-3 from each brand on display?
Does it put you of if you have to make an apointment to visit the showroom but you could do evenings and sundays as well. Or would you just prefer to turn up 9-5 mon to sat and maybe have other customers trying pianos at the same time as you.

Once again thankyou for your answers.

[Gill the Piano]

The most successful dealer I know of is 9-5 but also tries to accommodate those coming from a distance or who can only manage certain times by opening up for them on Sundays or in the evenings by appointment.

[markymark]

Personally, I like to see a variety of brands. As mentioned so many times on this forum, Yamaha and Kawai have been the main brands with which I have been faced. Brands - good quality makes - such as Bechstein, Steinway, Bosendorfer, even Kemble are practically unknown in my part of the world but it is what sells in your area that is most important. So, as a customer, basically I would like to see a variety of pianos in a variety of slect brands, but not so many that it becomes confusing!

Most retailers in my area operate business from 9-5. For the unemployed or part-timers, that is great but not so much for the full-time workers with non-flexi hours. Weekends are important for the likes of that category and, if there is demand, opening say 1:30-5:30pm on Sunday may be useful too. I do know of a music store that does not open on Mondays at all! I suppose some trial and error may be needed before deciding on something concrete.

As I think I've said before mdw, your customer service must be quite rare (in a good way!!!) - I've never heard of a retailer organising an appointment for private trials! I think that's a nice touch for anyone travelling long distance during the week, and who also works 9-5 themselves.

[mdw]

As I think I've said before mdw, your customer service must be quite rare (in a good way!!!) - I've never heard of a retailer organising an appointment for private trials! I think that's a nice touch for anyone travelling long distance during the week, and who also works 9-5 themselves.

That primarily grew out of having one customer trying to decide on which £5K piano to buy whilst anothers 8 year old played "chopsticks" over and over on a nearby piano!!!

[Openwood]

Would that fall into the (C) section then. ie you would spend that amount of money, Yam C6 sight unseen on new product if the dealer had a good reputation.

Let's put it this way, if Mr Shackell said he had a C6 that he thought I'd like then I would probably go for it. If the music shop down the road said the same thing I definitely wouldn't.

As for brands, I would prefer to try at least three.

Appointments would win hands down for me - I find it hard to concentrate when other people are around.

[Lieu]

Not (C). For me, the differences between (A) and (B) don't matter much - it's just a matter of convenience.

As for selection, enough pianos to highlight the more fundamental differences between different makes but also enough of each model/line to 'refine' the choice, just letting them feel the more subtle differences. Certainly you'd have to engineer your selection to your resources. Obviously a customer would expect to try at least a handfull around what they're looking for so it's probably vital to accomodate that, which I'd imagine would extrapolate to a 'minimum' overall amount. But hey, don't ask me :p

Also, appointment-only would put me off. I just want to show up during the day and have a go at playing for an hour. (or did, anyway. Got my piano now ) Maybe make an appointment when dealing with the final buying stuff or something really expensive!

[Gill the Piano]

...and when the customer is trying out the piano, they like to be LEFT ALONE! I have occasional gripes from customers who have been to dealers and once they've been told about the instrument just wanted to be left to play it in peace. Either the salesperson has hung over them, cooing over their playing (and making them very self-conscious) or keeping on telling them about the piano, or -worse!!- practically pushing 'em off the stool and thundering through something themselves!

[markymark]

YES!! When I bought my last piano, the moment the salesman heard that I was a piano teacher, he stood gaping at the piano, waiting for me to do something impressive! Needless to say, there was a considerable awkward silence before he took the hint!

[mdw]

...and when the customer is trying out the piano, they like to be LEFT ALONE!

Well thats one thing im doing right. I tend to just leave them until they knock on the office door.

[piano kate]

I definitely agree with that too. The dealer I went to was very helpful, found me some music to play and left me alone! She even made us a cup of tea as we had come a long way! I did feel intimidated by other people in the shop playing so waited until they had left before playing anything myself

I have bought my piano from them

[Antz]

Hi there

I'm currently experiencing the joys of looking for another piano. My current piano hails from the century before last and has served my family well for 20 years, but has done its dash.

I'm in a very different part of the world to you, and perhaps not your average customer - I don't have a great deal of money to spend, but am prepared to put in time and effort to research and try out different pianos. In my search for my next piano I've spent scores of hours, travelled hundreds of kms, and played more than 30 pianos, new and old, over about six weeks. Does that make me a "piano trollop"?

I've made numerous 100+ km round trips just to look at single pianos in private homes (found via the internet). I've visited a piano tuner/seller who operated out of the basement of his home - about seven pianos on display: three old English uprights, three English grands, and a cheap, new Chinese piano whose name escapes me. He made myself, my wife and my two kids welcome one Sunday afternoon, and left us to work our way around his entire stock. Quite a nice way to do it, but the only piano he had that I thought was any good, was a grand and I can't fit one into my house. Also, not enough stock, and all similar types/era of pianos.

I've visited the music shops and the piano shops. I've been frustrated by the generic music shops, where the pianos are not high priority, rarely well tuned etc, and the salespeople know less than I do.

I've enjoyed the specialist piano stores, particularly the ones that sell new and pre-loved, and especially those where there's some rebuilding of pianos going on. In the shops that sell only new, I've also tended to find the staff less helpful ... not sure why that is ... not always the case, of course.

I've played new Bechsteins and Yamahas, and second hand of both also. I've played Schimmels and Grotrian Steinwegs and Richard Lipps. In the shop where I started with a Samick, and moved onto a Brodman, and finally found something wonderful in a brand new Bechstein, I didn't allow myself to play the new Fazioli in case I liked it too much. The Bechstein was expensive enough. Mind you, they mightn't have let me touch the Fazioli either!

Another frustration for me is the acoustic clutter in many music shops. If one is wanting to try out pianos, one needs to be the only one playing at the time. This is a major problem with the majority of piano shops, and one of the reasons I'm spending so much time looking privately - at least I can play in piece & quiet.

Anyway, back to your original two questions. Options A and B would both be fine by me. I wouldn't buy over the Internet without trying, but have used the net extensively to track down pianos, particularly those being sold privately (there's the odd real bargain - I missed out on an old Richard Lipp a few nights ago that went for NZD $600 - sold by someone who clearly didn't know the value of that which he was trying to sell).

Apologies for rabitting on.

[Celestite]

Either option A or B would suit me but absolutely NOT C. I would be looking for as wide a variety of instruments as possible but since I would be looking in the £5-£10k price range (would love it to be more, but have to be realistic) I can appreciate that this would require a considerable financial commitment on your part to carry stock at that sort of level. For me personally, there are plenty of retailers out there stocking the modern plastic eastern pianos in brightly lit public showrooms, I would be looking for an alternative and would definitely prefer to be on my own to concentrate on the sound and feel of the instrument. If that meant making an appointment, it would be a small price worth paying.
Btw, I have also put my withering teacher's look to good use on irritating salesmen dribbling over my shoulder making benile comments (and their customers who seem to think it's ok to stand and stare).