ATLAS Meister information .. thoughts on how good/bad?

[apache_sim]

I am just about to purchase a Meister piano from a dealer. It is essentially a Japanese import, I think, with an ATLAS frame. I cannot find any information on the web.

I was wondering if anyone could help with some information.
The Piano is 134cm tall (long strings), really sounds nice.
The dealer says it would cost about 6k (Stirling) new and is about 4-5 years old and going for 2.2K
Anyone have any experience with Meister (not Otto Meister unless they are now made in Japan)


Thanks
Apache_sim

[PianoGuy]

The larger Atlas pianos sound very good, but can be prone to hairline frame cracks. Unless you know where to look and most dealers don't, they are nearly undetectable.

The price is steep for what is essentially a no-namo Nippon import. Is this from a high street dealer with premises, or a non VAT registered part timer with a lock-up? I'd be chuffing well gobsmacked if it turns out to be 4-5 years old too. Most of these are twenty knocking on thirty and they look very good on it. Good enough to fool the unwary. Since Atlas pianos were never officially imported to the UK, any comments on list price will be a guestimate.

[apache_sim]

The piano is not from a high street dealer, but from failry well presented buidings near Colchester. There were a couple of other options I was looking at too a Yamaha U3 (2k) and a Kiawa (I think) for about the same price.

The Meister looks in excellent condition, Rosewood colour.. can't remeber a model number thogh.

Thanks for the info.

apache_sim

[apache_sim]

Just looked on the dealers web site and he is advertising the Meister as a recent model "ATLAS Japanese recent model dark bright rosewood".

The other piano I was wondering if it might be good is "KAWAI Black sleek recent model powerful, light touch" this model was also about 130 cm tall

[PianoGuy]

Recent model means very little unless backed up by a check of the serial number to provide an accurate date. There are some of us to whom the Seventies are 'recent' but paying brave money for an imported Jap piano from that decade is foolish!

Get the dealer to show you the serial number in his Piano Atlas to verify the y.o.m.

Both the Atlas piano and the Kawai may well be good buys, but equally they may be old and well worn.

[apache_sim]

What about recondition japanese imports? Are these a decent buy?

From the same dealer a reconditioned U3 import Ser No 6xx,xxx for 2.5k
looks and sounds great. Everything inside the piano looks pristine.
The dealer says that he imports from Yamaha reconditioned pianos.

[mdw]

The dealer says that he imports from Yamaha reconditioned pianos.

I thought Yamaha was in the business of selling NEW pianos. Have seen in the past a Yam web page rubishing second hand Yam imports as they were upsetting new Yam dealers.

[PianoGuy]

What about recondition japanese imports? Are these a decent buy?

From the same dealer a reconditioned U3 import Ser No 6xx,xxx for 2.5k
looks and sounds great. Everything inside the piano looks pristine.
The dealer says that he imports from Yamaha reconditioned pianos.

Do you mean 6 hundred thousand? Not 6 million?

In which case it's very very old indeed, and will probably be a "No.U3" by Nippon Gakki (the old way that Yamaha labelled the frames) and may well have the Yamaha logo offset to one side on the front of the piano's top door. If it is, run a chuffing mile from it because it'll be knocking on 45 to 50 years old!

A 6 million serial will be only a couple of years old.

There is a possibly valid rumour that it is Yamaha Japan who are tarting up all these old U1 and U3s for sale to the Europeans, simply because it solves the problem of what to do with old part exchanged pianos in Japan. This may indeed be the case, but I know not of any UK dealer who can swear that this is true.

Pinch of salt time I think.

[athomik]

There is a possibly valid rumour that it is Yamaha Japan who are tarting up all these old U1 and U3s for sale to the Europeans, simply because it solves the problem of what to do with old part exchanged pianos in Japan. This may indeed be the case, but I know not of any UK dealer who can swear that this is true.

Pinch of salt time I think.

Regarding reconditioned/grey imports from Yamaha, there are a few points to bear in mind:
1.Yamaha have already made their profit on any piano which appears on the secondhand market.
2. every reconditioned piano represents a lost potential sale of a new piano for Yamaha
3. The US is the biggest market for recon/grey imports. Yamaha Corporation of America are very vociferous in their condemnation of grey imports, going as far as publishing (somewhat disputed) information on their website to discourage people from buying them. They also refuse to support customers if they can't verify that their piano isn't a genuine US import. The size of the US market means that YCA have a lot of clout with YCJ (Yamaha Corporation of Japan) and YCJ would be very reluctant to step on YCA's toes.
4. If the punter can't tell whether a secondhand piano has been given the once over by Yamaha or Joe's Piano Salvage in some back alley, Yamaha would risk serious damage to their reputation.

[PianoGuy]

If the punter can't tell whether a secondhand piano has been given the once over by Yamaha or Joe's Piano Salvage in some back alley, Yamaha would risk serious damage to their reputation.

But that's just the point Athomik old fruit! The punter can't tell. And with some dealers of grey imports themselves probably believing that Yamaha recondition their own pianos in special workshops to sell over here, and tuners only suspecting that most, if not all grey imports are not reconditioned by Yamaha, then the problem gets worse. So what about the used pianos in Japan then? Where do they go? If Yamaha are so worried about them they should implement an end of life policy, but they obviously don't, so why not send them to Europe? It keeps YCA off their backs too!

I frequently see "Factory rebuilt" U1/U3s which are so immaculate that it's obvious that some factory somewhere is churning them out, and they fit genuine Yamaha hammers so that the work looks kosher. The result can indeed be excellent, and if sold by a caring conscientious dealer presents no risk to the public at all. Conversely, the country is filling up with shoddy, overcooked, worn out examples and some dealers (especially but not solely) the eBay cowboys, the lock-up and trading estate boys are making a good living out of peddling rubbish.

Yamaha USA's story of every piano being 'seasoned for destination' is utter baloney and in my opinion undermines their credibility, since a U1 sold in Armpit Louisiana will be the same piano as sold in Yucksville New Hampshire or Fleapit Arizona, all of which have wildly different climates. They should shut up and put up, but at the same time highlight the real dangers of buying from a dodgy dealership, namely technical ignorance, lack of aftersales support, longevity issues of old pianos versus new, and explode the myth peddled by some sheisters that the older Yamahas are somehow better built than the new ones. Sadly Yamaha's own lamentable policy of allowing rabid discounting leading to corner-cutting in pre-sales preparation has helped fuel this myth.

[Barrie Heaton]

I frequently see "Factory rebuilt" U1/U3s which are so immaculate that it's obvious that some factory somewhere is churning them out, and they fit genuine Yamaha hammers so that the work looks kosher.

There was a factory in Japan and one has just set up in China offering new Yamaha parts fitted sadly I deleted the email as I was not interest

Yamaha USA's story of every piano being 'seasoned for destination' is utter baloney and in my opinion undermines their credibility, since a U1 sold in Armpit Louisiana will be the same piano as sold in Yucksville New Hampshire or Fleapit Arizona, all of which have wildly different climates. They should shut up and put up, but at the same time highlight the real dangers of buying from a dodgy dealership, namely technical ignorance, lack of aftersales support, longevity issues of old pianos versus new, and explode the myth peddled by some sheisters that the older Yamahas are somehow better built than the new ones. Sadly Yamaha's own lamentable policy of allowing rabid discounting leading to corner-cutting in pre-sales preparation has helped fuel this myth.

This takes effort and unlike the EEC YCA can refuses to support piano not sold new in the US and the tuners have problems getting parts from YCA The man in the street in the US tend to take what large corps say as gospel that's why they can get away with rubbish like 'seasoned for destination' plus as I understand it the dealer network can't deal in grey imports so they are happy to reinforce the seasoned for destination' to sell new.



Barrie,

[athomik]

If the punter can't tell whether a secondhand piano has been given the once over by Yamaha or Joe's Piano Salvage in some back alley, Yamaha would risk serious damage to their reputation.

But that's just the point Athomik old fruit! The punter can't tell.

Which is why Yamaha don't recondition pianos (unless it's some kind of MI5 style secret mission that even most of Yamaha don't know about). There are a few big Japanese dealers who buy up secondhand pianos to export to Europe and (mainly) the USA. Considering the scale of the trade, I suppose they would have to rent a 'factory', where they may be engaged in restoring secondhand pianos. So the piano is "factory restored", just not by Yamaha.