old vs new piano and age of piano

margaret lim · Post by **margaret lim** » 28 Dec 2007, 06:05

I play the piano though admittedly am very, very rusty from lack of practice for more than 20 years. With more time as a retiree, I want to start playing again and need some advice on a piano to buy. I have seen and am interested in a (1)UK made used Grover and Grover piano (serial number 160xxx) and (2) a new [size=18]console Gebr Perzina made in Yantai, China.
Can anyone tell me the age of the GG Piano?
Also since the prices of both pianos are not too far apart and within my budget, would the experts advise getting the used piano or the new one? The used piano has a nice wood inlay cabinet (probably with burley wood) and has been cleaned and prep by the pianoshop selling the item.

PianoGuy · Post by **PianoGuy** » 28 Dec 2007, 13:37

The Grover & Grover is a Bentley produced for export. Serial 160*** suggests 1988, so likely will be a load of rubbish compared to a modern Perzina.

The only hope is if the Grover & Grover is fitted with a Schwander or Langer action. If it's fitted with a Bentley check action or a Richard Harley action, don't even consider it. In fact, hand it in to the police. It'll be the best thing in the long run.

margaret lim · Post by **margaret lim** » 28 Dec 2007, 18:21

Season's greetings and thank you, PianoGuy, for your quick and pointed response to my first posting on the forum.
Indeed, the Grover and Grover piano was exported to the Singapore dealer where I found it for sale. The piano dealer insists that it is only 13 years old as it was sold from the same shop 13 years ago. I am a novice at reseaching the age of pianos, but found the Bentley website where I also came to a similar conclusion that the serial number suggests it is almost 20 years old.
I know little about the technical aspects of a piano. so forgive my puzzlement at your suggestion that the police be called in! From your negative tone, I am already going to give the GG a miss and focus on the China-made Perzina.
I am learning alot from this Forum.

PianoGuy · Post by **PianoGuy** » 28 Dec 2007, 19:18

margaret lim wrote: Indeed, the Grover and Grover piano was exported to the Singapore dealer where I found it for sale.

_ _ _ _

I know little about the technical aspects of a piano. so forgive my puzzlement at your suggestion that the police be called in! .

I believe the Grover & Grover name was used in territories where the Bentley Piano Co did not have the rights to use the name "Bentley" lest it be confused with the motor manufacturer. (Similarly, here we used to have "Trio" hi-fi made by Kenwood, because in the UK, Kenwood is a leading maker of food mixers!) Bentley pianos of certain vintages do not enjoy a good reputation here because of the tendency of the plastic components used in the in-house actions. In the late 1980s, Bentley finally saw sense and fitted conventional Langer, Schwander or (at extra cost) Renner actions and consigned their own "Richard-Harley" designs to history, and the dustbin.

The Police thing was merely a suggestion from my own warped mind!

Post by **Barrie Heaton** » 28 Dec 2007, 20:35

PianoGuy wrote:
I believe the Grover & Grover name was used in territories where the Bentley Piano Co did not have the rights to use the name "Bentley" lest it be confused with the motor manufacturer. !

Was it not used to mark 80 years of piano making by the Grover family.

The company made a model called "Bentley" in 1920's the model was so popular manly in the far east they renamed the company Bentley Pianos - there was no problems with using the name "Bentley"

I was told that the owner of Bentley Cars Lieutenant W.O. Bentley owned one of the first Bentley grands this was by one of the workers at Bentley back in the 70s how true this is I don't know

As to fitting Langer actions as I understand cost was the main factor they were cheaper than their own actions.

Some of them Richard Actions are still going strong in schools shame about the plastic flanges that is what lets them down

Have a nice one

Barrie,

margaret lim · Post by **margaret lim** » 30 Dec 2007, 14:48

Hi again! Appreciated so much the informative lessons from the responses of Pianoguy and Barrie, our patient webmaster.

I am duly warned off the Grover and G but still not totally sold on the new Yantai-made (Chinese) Perzina 112. So,as frequently advised on this forum, I decided to try out more pianos.

Found an imported used Japan-made 14-year black (i prefer unavailable mahogany) Kawai #2150105 model X0-2 at a dealer who imports non-reconditioned Kawais and Yamahas. I like its tone, condition (as a non-technician) and the price would be a saving of about US$700 fron the new Mahogany Perzina 112 (relatively unknown in Singapore). the touch is also comfortably light.

The Kawai dealer recommends the older Kawai (surprise!) for its quality and durability compared to a new China-made Perzina.

I am confused and would welcome any reactions /advice to help me in making a decisaion as I would really like to start practicing again soon!
Thanks a bunch for your care.

PianoGuy · Post by **PianoGuy** » 30 Dec 2007, 19:10

margaret lim wrote:
Found an imported used Japan-made 14-year black (i prefer unavailable mahogany) Kawai #2150105 model X0-2 at a dealer who imports non-reconditioned Kawais and Yamahas. I like its tone, condition (as a non-technician) and the price would be a saving of about US$700 fron the new Mahogany Perzina 112 (relatively unknown in Singapore). the touch is also comfortably light.

The Kawai dealer recommends the older Kawai (surprise!) for its quality and durability compared to a new China-made Perzina.

The dealer may have a point re durability, but personally I have never been a fan of the Kawai sound nor feeling of the action until the current series. A similarly aged Yamaha would be a better bet.

margaret lim · Post by **margaret lim** » 01 Jan 2008, 12:51

A HAPPY, HEALTHY AND WELL TUNED NEW YEAR TO YOU PIANOGUY. Again, thanks for your thoughts. I am making another round of visits to try to wrap up and hopefully make the BIG decision with a prayer and still with trembling.

PianoGuy · Post by **PianoGuy** » 01 Jan 2008, 23:18

All the best with your imminent purchase and for 2008.

PG

margaret lim · Post by **margaret lim** » 12 Jan 2008, 15:12

Hi folks

Since you were a part of my decision-making, I'm pleased to report that I finally took the plunge with the Perzina 118 yesterday. I had a good discussion with the dealer, whom i felt could be trusted to give good after-sales support. I look forward to the pleasure of relearning to play the piamo again! Hope not to fret the neighbours too much,though. With my small space in the condo,i can only fit the piano in what we here call the living room i.e.where we receive visitors. .

Cheers and thank you again for all your info and suport.

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