Are we a dying breed? College closing

sussexpianos · Post by **sussexpianos** » 28 Nov 2007, 16:20

Hi all,
I have just found out that Newark & Sherwood college is closing its piano course.
I did my training there 1992-95 when DT was running the show.
What a shame, that means only the London course is left. I haven't been able to contact John yet but Im a bit upset about it. Started the course when I was only 15, and being more than 200 miles away from home, I soon grow up quickly. Newarks public houses helped a bit.
I lot of happy memories there(except those tuning rooms which got very hot).

Post by **Barrie Heaton** » 28 Nov 2007, 18:24

The gov has pulled the RTU funding and the 60% room use rule is not helping what else can you do with a room full of pianos. London may close its doors as well Hereford is scaled down but it now allows fully sited students and they are looking at distant Learning

We sent out a letter to all our members askiing to contact there local MP over the funding

They are barking on about teaching a trade, yet cut the funding from 2 years to one.

You can't train a tuner in one year in the 70s it use to be 3 years but surprise surprise who cut the funding in 1979 a Labour gov I had just finished in 1979

Barrie,

Openwood · Post by **Openwood** » 28 Nov 2007, 22:46

I was thinking about packing-in teaching and re-training as a piano technician. Is that a crazy idea?

Post by **Barrie Heaton** » 28 Nov 2007, 23:16

Openwood wrote:I was thinking about packing-in teaching and re-training as a piano technician. Is that a crazy idea?

Quite a lot start later on in life but it is getting the funding and living off student loan

At RNCB it is £85.00 per day for 2 years and there are some students who do pay their own fees keen or what

Barrie,

sussexpianos · Post by **sussexpianos** » 29 Nov 2007, 10:05

soon, the only way to learn the trade will be to go abroad. This is total madness. The way the market is, this dosn't help! Who voted them in? I didn't.
There will soon be no fully trained tuners but people with electronic tuners who did a weekend course.
How about getting trained via U-Tube?
I think I'll have to organise a big get together at Newark before its torn down for flats.

athomik · Post by **athomik** » 29 Nov 2007, 14:58

sussexpianos wrote:soon, the only way to learn the trade will be to go abroad.

Just out of interest, has anyone in the UK ever tried the Randy Potter course from the US, and what do you think about it? http://www.pianoworld.com/ubb/ubb/ultim ... tml#000005

Post by **Barrie Heaton** » 29 Nov 2007, 17:38

athomik wrote:
sussexpianos wrote:soon, the only way to learn the trade will be to go abroad.
Just out of interest, has anyone in the UK ever tried the Randy Potter course from the US, and what do you think about it? http://www.pianoworld.com/ubb/ubb/ultim ... tml#000005

The problem is getting a mentor in the UK. The RP one is well respected in the US in some quarters but frowned on by some. The USA is geared up to distance learning and the PTG encourage none trained tuners to attend classes.

In the UK we are not there was a guy up in Scotland who started the RP course but was refused entry in to*PTA classes after a wile. The ABPT do allow sited tuners to attend their classes but again they will not allow untrained to attend students in training are allowed but the next one is a closed shop because of numbers

The RNCB did look at block release and distance learning

*that may have now changed as that was a few years ago

Barrie

A440 · Post by **A440** » 29 Nov 2007, 23:46

Sad as it seems distance learning and Internet learning is probably the future. Let's just hope there is a well regulated, well advised course. Perhaps this site could be a springboard for a learning course.
Either that or there needs to be some sort of incentive for piano firms to take on apprentices.
It only takes one generation to miss out and the whole rarefied, esoteric piano expertise are lost forever.

sussexpianos · Post by **sussexpianos** » 30 Nov 2007, 22:52

sorry, but I can not see how you can learn this trade over long distance. I spent 1-3 hours a day, 4-5 days a week during terms for 3 years learning to tune a piano to a standard which was acceptable for comercial work. After every piano I tuned, it was checked and discussed by the tutor one to one so you learnt where you went wrong and progressed.
I have tried to teach people how to regulate pianos, but in order to be able to be left alone to regulate you need to know all the back ground info ie. what happens if you haven't put the right thickness of backtouch baize in?
Most people don't have the time or get bored easy. Most firms also don't have the time or money to teach.
My conclusion is that the people who are good at what they do, tuner/technician/restringer etc. will be able to charge what they like. At the moment good techs can earn £200+ a day and tuners a little more. When people start retiring, the money is simply going to go up.
Look at plumbers, when there's a shortage, like now, they can earn up to £75k+ and not break a sweat. My friend is a good plasterer, he earns £300 a day because there is a shortage of good plasterers.
Long distance learning, good for academic areas such as english, but not for practical areas.

Post by **Bill Kibby** » 01 Dec 2007, 17:50

I don't think it's the tuners that are dying, it is the pianos themselves, and live music in general. I recently quoted to play for a function, and was told that they could get a proper disco for that money. PROPER? What's proper about it? The definition of "Live music" around east Anglia seems to be some bloke singing with backing discs, and kids don't even know what a musician is!

sussexpianos · Post by **sussexpianos** » 01 Dec 2007, 18:24

very true, how many pubs have a piano now? I can think of 2! Most of the hotels along Eastbourne seafront have pianos and are played during the evenings for the old dears

It does supprise me though the amount of people who are supprised to learn that pianos are still being sold.

Post by **Barrie Heaton** » 01 Dec 2007, 18:40

sussexpianos wrote:sorry, but I can not see how you can learn this trade over long distance. I spent 1-3 hours a day, 4-5 days a week during terms for 3 years learning to tune a piano to a standard which was acceptable for comercial work.

it can be done most of the tuners in the US did it that way some are vgood, quite a lot are OK and some are crap just like in the UK it all depends if they have a good mentor and if they are keen to improve they all gave to use an ETD and that's the problem in the UK ETDs are still not looked on as a joke

sussexpianos wrote: My conclusion is that the people who are good at what they do, tuner/technician/restringer etc. will be able to charge what they like. At the moment good techs can earn £200+ a day and tuners a little more. When people start retiring, the money is simply going to go up.
Look at plumbers, when there's a shortage, like now, they can earn up to £75k+ and not break a sweat. My friend is a good plasterer, he earns £300 a day because there is a shortage of good plasterers.

Make the price too high and all will happen is more will switch to digital

At present down south quite a few tuners I know charge between £50 and £80 a tuning up north £35 to £75

Some say they can't get that

Barrie,

Post by **Gill the Piano** » 01 Dec 2007, 20:11

I've had two tuners retire in the locality, and two more have cut back drastically. My telephone's running red-hot and I'm booked solid until December the 21st...frankly, I'd be glad if someone was coming up through the system to take a few on! The old tuner who took me under his wing when I left college gradually passed on the straight-strung overdampers on his round, and then drip-fed me better ones as I progressed. And when he died, I took on his round and gave his tools to someone just starting out in the trade (no point having two of everything, though when some b*£$*!? stole my tool kit I momentarily regretted that gesture!). But there doesn't seem to be the steady supply of new blood.

A440 · Post by **A440** » 02 Dec 2007, 01:34

A lot of people's first experience of a piano is at school (mine was). I hear those in charge of school budgets all the time saying " well we can get 7 digital pianos for the cost of one acoustic and it doesnt even tuning.....result!"
People really cannot look LONGTERM. They have no idea about the next 3 generations or so using their investment. They can only see the Now. People are not programmed to understand a product that lasts so long.
It's a real problem and this is the educated educators we're talking about not just Jo Public.
No training for technitions, no pianos in schools....
I try to be optimistic but it's tricky sometimes to see how the future will pan out.
I know distance learning isn't ideal by any means but beggers can't be choosers I guesss...
There are still pianos selling (they have never been cheaper) but the industry supporting the instruments has never been weaker.

PianoGuy · Post by **PianoGuy** » 02 Dec 2007, 09:23

A440 wrote:A lot of people's first experience of a piano is at school (mine was). I hear those in charge of school budgets all the time saying " well we can get 7 digital pianos for the cost of one acoustic and it doesnt even tuning.....result!"
People really cannot look LONGTERM. They have no idea about the next 3 generations or so using their investment. They can only see the Now. People are not programmed to understand a product that lasts so long.

There are still pianos selling (they have never been cheaper) but the industry supporting the instruments has never been weaker.

Absolutely '440!

As one who services digitals as well as proper pianos, I am trying to explain to schools that in many cases digitals are a false economy. A lifespan of 10 years is going some, and the recent (5-6 years old) Yamahas' keys seem to be giving up steadily. A replacement key is only four or five quid, but factor in my time to fit one (a car journey and about 30 Philips screws later) and the bill matches that of a tuning session. A few schools have had instruments that have needed an average of two new keys a year. Flimsy pedal cables and disintegrating plinths are also common.

But I agree with you about the acoustic piano industry. So many cheap pianos and untrained internet based outlets selling them is a recipe for disaster, especially if there's no training for freelance back-up to mop up their mess.

Unfortunately I predict an opportunity for more Eastern Europeans (there are colleges in Poland training students of course!) to step in where we sadly cannot, and it's a total tragedy. The UK no longer has a manufacturing industry, and our service industry looks as if it will go down the pan shortly too. Even more tragic when you know that the Polish could never make a decent piano to start with and we have forgotten what splendid instruments we once built. Danemann, Welmar, Chappell, Rogers......

I blame Thatcher.

Post by **Barrie Heaton** » 02 Dec 2007, 15:03

sussexpianos wrote:very true, how many pubs have a piano now? I can think of 2! Most of the hotels along Eastbourne seafront have pianos and are played during the evenings for the old dears It does supprise me though the amount of people who are supprised to learn that pianos are still being sold.

That's why we put up the [url=http://www.uk-piano.org/pubs-and-restau ... ex.phpPubs and Restaurants[/url] section to promote live piano music.

So if you know of any tell them about the list, or put them up. The more that go to these venues the more popular they will become but if no one knows that they are there they can't go.

And if you are playing at an event put it on the Piano Concerts Musical Events

Barrie,

sussexpianos · Post by **sussexpianos** » 22 Dec 2007, 14:43

heard Newark are not going to close now. Im happy

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Are we a dying breed? College closing

Are we a dying breed? College closing

Dying breed