Is the Boston UP118E a good piano to buy new?

[Peter]

I am considering the Boston UP118E or the Boston UP131E new. Have seen these at Stuart Jones pianos in Newtown, Wales. But I don't have much experience. Any advice? Have people had good service/ advice from here in the past?

[PianoGuy]

Not a bad piano, but a terribly expensive way to buy a Chinese Pearl-River offering.

Similarly, Blüthner's Irmler 130cm upright is simply a rebadged Pearl river UP130T (not to be confused with the Irmler Europe range which is crap from Poland)

[Peter]

Presumably then Pearl River sourced pianos are lacking in quality somewhere when priced at the Boston upright level of the market? Where do the Boston uprights fall down?

What other pianos in the Boston upright 118 price range do acheive the quality one should expect for that sort of money?

[sussexpianos]

I thought the Irmlers were a Bluthner design but built in China? Are they just a rebadge Pearl? aka Waldstein?

[PianoGuy]

Presumably then Pearl River sourced pianos are lacking in quality somewhere when priced at the Boston upright level of the market? Where do the Boston uprights fall down?

What other pianos in the Boston upright 118 price range do acheive the quality one should expect for that sort of money?

What price is being asked for the Boston?
I would imagine that a similarly sized or larger (121cm) Perzina, Wendl & Lung or Brodmann would be a better bet for less cash. Or indeed a Pearl River UP118T!

Sussex! The Irmlers are either badged-up standard Pearl-River designs or Polski-Kräpp depending on whether they are Irmler or Irmler EUROPE. AFAI can see, there's b***er all Blüthner design input.

[Peter]

About 5900 GBP for the Boston UP118 polished walnut. So what would be better with a budget such as this available? Something even better than a 121 Perzina, Wendl & Lung, Brodmann, or Pearl River UP118T? Or is this a price where nothing is worth having and you have to go either cheaper (as you have kindly suggested), or else somewhat more expensive?

[PianoGuy]

Dreadful!

All the following are cheaper (or available cheaper if not list price) and will knock the Boston into a cocked hat:

Expensive- Up to £5,500:
Yamaha U3
Kawai K6

Mid-Price- Up to £4,500:
Kemble Mozart
Yamaha U1
Yamaha P121N
Kawai K3

Cheap (but still better than that Boston) - Up to £3k:
Wendl & Lung 122
Pearl-River Up125Mi
Brodmann 121
s/h Yamaha U1 (4-million serial number)
Kemble Oxford
Kawai K2

Bargain basement- May perform better at a pinch, around £2k:
Perzina/Eavestaff/Sangler 110cm
Yamaha b1

Quite honestly there are hundreds of others.

How S&S have the neck to charge that kind of dough for a piece of old Guangzhou-tech beats me. Even their Kawai based offerings were better value than this.

[PianoGuy]

In fact, buy a Kemble Mozart.

Far cheaper than any of that Chinese sh*te, cooked in Britain to a tried and tested recipe (it's a Yamaha U1 with a few tasty refinements) looks the business and there's only 250 of them in existence.

It's my fave piano at the moment.
(Can you tell? )

[Peter]

Thanks for your advice PianoGuy.

[Peter]

PianoGuy wrote: How S&S have the neck to charge that kind of dough for a piece of old Guangzhou-tech beats me. Even their Kawai based offerings were better value than this.

PianoGuy - I have just seen on Wikipedia the following: "Boston pianos are designed by Steinway using Steinway patents, but manufactured at the Kawai factory in Hamamatsu, Japan." They add that one Essex model - the "model(EGP-155) is currently made at the Pearl River factory in China" .

So is the Boston UP118 really "a piece of old Guangzhou-tech" or is it Japanese tech? Surely Guangzhou tech pianos would not be produced in Japan at the Kawai factory?

[PianoGuy]

So is the Boston UP118 really "a piece of old Guangzhou-tech" or is it Japanese tech? Surely Guangzhou tech pianos would not be produced in Japan at the Kawai factory?

Actually I was indeed mistaken. Many apologies, I was confusing the Boston and Essex ranges, although there is a lot of confusion about where a lot of Boston pianos do actually come from, but the Wiki is still slightly out of date.

The Bostons were originally built by Kawai to S&S designs but with previous-generation Kawai technology, then they added the Essex range which was built by either Young Chang or Pearl River depending on model. S&S still claim that their designs are used throughout, but remember that the design department is in the New York factory not Hamburg.

Currently the Boston 118 is made in Indonesia (presumably in Kawai's Indonesian factory) whilst all the rest of the uprights and grands are built by Kawai in Japan. The Essex range is built in Korea by Young Chang and in China by Pearl River depending on model.

5-odd K is a lot of money to spend on a piano, and I reckon most of the above list will still give the Boston a good run for the money. It's still very much overpriced. The only reason for considering one (unless you've fallen head over heels in love with it, then who is anybody else to argue?) is that the standard of service and aftercare you receive from a Steinway dealer may be better than most..... In which case, why not buy a Kemble or Kawai from him?! The Steinway/Boston cash-back offer of a refund if you upgrade to a real Steinway is relatively worthless, since 90% of Boston owners could never afford to trade up in any case!

[abc1337]

piano guy - i noticed the Kemble K121 didn't make your list - any specific reason why?

[PianoGuy]

piano guy - i noticed the Kemble K121 didn't make your list - any specific reason why?

It's a great piano, but currently the Mozart version is a better buy. The model number is actually K121CLM, so it is a K121 !!!

[abc1337]

Thanks for the prompt reply. Not to hijack this thread, but I'm on a narrowing down process (incl the obvious getting out there any playing a few), and the K121 is on the list. Biggest decision is to stick to that size or go to a 131?

I'll do the legwork in the next 4-5months whilst the room its going in is being sorted...your list above is not far off what I was considering...

[Peter]

there is a lot of confusion about where a lot of Boston pianos do actually come from, but the Wiki is still slightly out of date.

Currently the Boston 118 is made in Indonesia (presumably in Kawai's Indonesian factory) whilst all the rest of the uprights and grands are built by Kawai in Japan.

Well, in the end we decided to go for the (new) Boston UP118 (model II) in polished Walnut from Stuart Jones. He had preped it very well, which we thought was worth paying more for than we could have got it for from a heavy discounter. It sounded excellent and the polished walnut best suits our decor/ tastes.

It arrived this afternoon. The piano movers commented on how heavy the Bostons are. They said Steinways are the heaviest uprights they move. The two men cannot lift them, but have to tip one end to get the trolley under. After Steinways, Bostons and Yamahas are next heaviest, significantly so.

Curious about where it is made I have just looked for a label. On the back of mine, right in the middle, is a label that says "Made in Japan", so it seems that some at least are currently made in Japan.

Anyway, of those we have tried we thought it sounded and played best, though we have not seen every one one of the alternatives you kindly recommended, PianoGuy. Thank you once again.

[PianoGuy]

Well, in the end we decided to go for the (new) Boston UP118 (model II) in polished Walnut from Stuart Jones. He had preped it very well, which we thought was worth paying more for than we could have got it for from a heavy discounter. It sounded excellent and the polished walnut best suits our decor/ tastes.


Curious about where it is made I have just looked for a label. On the back of mine, right in the middle, is a label that says "Made in Japan", so it seems that some at least are currently made in Japan.

Anyway, of those we have tried we thought it sounded and played best, though we have not seen every one one of the alternatives you kindly recommended, PianoGuy. Thank you once again.

Thanks for letting us all know about your experience. It's always good to hear from someone who has had a good experience with a dealer and a piano. The golden rule is to buy whichever piano you like the best in your price range regardless of what anybody tells you (within reason!!) and it seems you've done just that. As I mentioned before, the prep standard of a S&S dealer is likely to be good, so I'm sure that has influenced your choice. A web-forum can only be of limited value. The only surefire way of choosing a piano is to play the blighter!!

I stand corrected on the origin of your UP118. If it says Japan on it, it's made by Kawai in Japan. Some variants are made in Indonesia, presumably to the same Kawai recipe. It wouldn't be high on my personal shortlist, but there will certainly be no problem with the build quality. The technology they use in the Bostons is a few years old now, and lags behind the Kawai models for precision and hi-techiness.

You can even enjoy it in time for Christmas!

PG

[A440]

Yes indeed!
Lovely to hear someone making a quality-led decision rather than a cheapness-led one. You will be a long-term happy customer I'm sure.

On the subject of the Mozarts I think they are the best thing ever to have come out of the Kemble factory. They are of course a limited edition and I think there are not that many left now, so don't hang about too long!