Steinberg piano

nix.17 · Post by **nix.17** » 23 Aug 2007, 20:46

I have a piano dated 1911, it is says Steinberg under the lid but I am aware that there are different kinds of Steinberg. It does have what looks like a 'fto' or 'sto' intertwined in a music note above where it says Steinberg. Bought by my Great Grandad from 'Shaw and Bland' Birmingham, as far as I know from new. I am unsure of its exact make so any suggestions - i would be grateful.

PianoGuy · Post by **PianoGuy** » 23 Aug 2007, 21:00

Unsure of exactly when it happened, but certainly by the 1930s, that particular branch of Steinberg was British. They were latterly made by Bentley, and I guess that the brand name and "St." logo became part of the haul given to Intermusic when they obtained many of the then British Piano Mfg. Co. brand names as part of settlement for bad debts when the BPMC went into receivership in 2003.

Ironically, the name Gehr.Steinberg is owned by Yantai Perzina who were marketed in this country by the aforementioned BPMC. Maybe if they had rationalised their bewildering and complicated model range; dropped the hopelessly outdated Bentley in favour of a rebadged Perzina, and sorted out the build quality of the Welmar and Knight pianos (1970s build quality would have been a vast improvement) they might still exist today.

nix.17 · Post by **nix.17** » 24 Aug 2007, 00:45

Thankyou for reply,
You certainly give me some more leads...
...I know that the piano ended up in my great aunts house, she was a missionary in India and came back due to WWII, the piano was from my great grandads, ie her father, we have a baby grand that it was always paired with, but that is a different make.
...interesting what you say about the company ownership, me nor my mother realsied that.
..Im going to look inside it tmw, (it's not in my house) and see what i can find in there.

nix.17 · Post by **nix.17** » 30 Aug 2007, 08:30

I have a serial number for the piano and a name inside,
it says
'Langer' on a wooden bar going across the the piano by the hammers
the serial number is '30919'
Any knowledge and advice?
Nic

Post by **Bill Kibby** » 10 Nov 2007, 16:03

I'd love to know more, do you have any information about your grandfather's company?

nix.17 · Post by **nix.17** » 12 Nov 2007, 21:23

i have some photo's i will upload them next few days

lluiscl · Post by **lluiscl** » 16 Nov 2007, 08:45

Hi. I have an Steinberg baby grand with the same logo. According its action (Ad. Lexow) it was made at 1925. If its posible I'd like to know more about this superb brand. I rebuilt the interior of this piano the last year (I am now finishing the cabinet) and I want to say its a little jewel: plenty of full sound yet!!
-how can I post a photo?-

Post by **Bill Kibby** » 16 Nov 2007, 10:43

You can email them to me, or read the "Please read" announcement above this posting.

lluiscl · Post by **lluiscl** » 16 Nov 2007, 22:40

Rolf Diekmann · Post by **Rolf Diekmann** » 19 Nov 2007, 22:56

Hello,
a close friend of my grandfather´s worked with the Steinberg company in Berlin and so it happened that in 1935 my grandfather bought a grand piano directly at the factory. The grand had been built in 1935 or 1934 and was on display in the showroom. According to my father the friend indicated that Wilhelm Furtwängler, the famous conductor of the Berlin Philharmonic Orchestra played this grand when he once visited the factory.
It carries the number 33958. It has a Langer action. Franz Langer was a company specialising in piano actions which existed from 1882 to 1935 when it became insolvent (see Hubert Henke, Encyclopedia of German Suppliers for the Piano Industry, 2002, Bochinsky publishers, pages 141 – 142). The action looks exactly like the one shown on the photographs of Illuiscl. Despite its age our grand was still in good shape and taken from my parent´s home to Stuttgart in 2004 where it was slightly reconditioned by the former piano building factory Mathaes which today only does service work.
As to the story of Wilhelm Furtwängler having played our grand, the Berlin Philharmonic Orchestra indeed at least possesed one Steinberg grand as reported by Hubert Henkel in his Encyclopedia of German Piano Makers, published 2000 by Bochinsky, page 626 – 627. Henkel gives the most comprehensive history of the Steinberg factory available so it might be interesting enough if give you my translation of his entry on „Steinberg & Co. Piano factory Berlin, 1908 – 1940:
„The limited company is established by company charter of 16th April 1908, the share capital being 20,000 (Gold)Marks, managing director is the technician Ignatz Loewy, the place of business at East Gubener Straße 42c. On 3d Oct. 1908 the trademarks „Steinberg Pianos“ and on 13th December „Berg-Pianos“ are registered. In June 1911 the company and the factory move to Frankfurter Allee 117, having a good reputation as an active member of the trade. De Wit 1912 indicates Georg Schlesinger and Ignatz Loewy as owners of the company. Since 1919 the company is in Frankfurter Allee 12 and Cadiner Straße 20, it participates in the Leipzig spring exhibition, owners still being Georg Schlesinger and Ignatz Loewy, the company builds its own actions. In Nov. 1929 the insolvent company Reinhold Schröther is acquired together with Fritz Kuhla AG. Since spring of 1932 big concert grands are being built, one of them delivered to the Berlin Philharmony. At the end of 1936 Ignatz Loewy and Georg Schlesinger flee from the National Socialists to England, Karl Nickel is granted full power of attorney (Prokura) to continue the operation. On 8th Jan. 1937 there is a conference of creditors, on 12th Febr. 1937 bankruptcy proceedings over the assets of the company are opened. In Oct. 1937 Paul Bogs is announced the new owner, Gertrud Mohlis gets Prokura in Aug. 1938. Since Febr. 1940 Bernhard May is the new owner and he changes the name of the company to his own name, the power of attorney of Gertrud Möhlis is cancelled. Sales Brochures: July 1909, German, English, French, 12 small pianos; Sept. 1913, German, English, French, Italian, Spanish, 2 grands, 17 small pianos; May 1921, 34 pages, 7 languages, like before and also Portugese and Swedish, 2 baby grands 133 and 157, 12 small pianos, 1 reproduction small piano; Sept. 1928, 16 pages, grands and small pianos; Oct. 1935 brochure for small vertical piano „Favorita“.“
Another book, Jens-Uwe Witter, The Encyclopedia of Pianos, 1st ed. 1998, p. 448 also indicates 1908 as the year when „Steinberg & Co.“ was established. He lists three numbers with the respective production dates: 19,104: 1920; 21,933: 1925; 24,055: 20th March 1930. In the 2d ed. 2000, p. 712 he indicates locations at Tottenham, London and Berlin as if the company was founded in England and moved to Germany the same year. Without further explanation he also refers to entries on „Bently, Rogers & Sons“ and Steinberg & Gehr, Rogers & Son, Bentley“. From 1922 – 1923 Berlin, Grimmaische Straße 26 is given as the location and 1923 a subsidiary in Leipzig is mentioned. Hope this was not too much. Bye!

Post by **Bill Kibby** » 20 Nov 2007, 12:45

Thanks, we haven't even heard of any such source of German information, I'll have to look for that! Do you have an ISBN number for it?

Rolf Diekmann · Post by **Rolf Diekmann** » 20 Nov 2007, 23:03

Hi,
sure, but you can also order Henkel´s books directly from the publisher´s online shop and where you can also find the ISBNs: http://www.bochinsky.de/advanced_search ... ords=huber
You might also be interested in the Atlas der Pianonummern (Atlas of piano Numbers) by Jan Großbach with serial numbers from piano makers all over Europe (http://www.bochinsky.de/product_info.ph ... mmern.html).
Of course, you need to be familiar with the German language. I am not aware of any translations of these books into English.
By the way, your forum is excellent, keep up the good work!
Greetings

Rolf Diekmann · Post by **Rolf Diekmann** » 20 Nov 2007, 23:14

I forgot the other book I had mentioned:
Jens-Uwe Witter, Das Klavier-Lexikon: Namen und Fabrikate aus dem Klavier-, Orgel- und Harmoniumbau sowie Handel und Service von 1788 - 2000 / . - 2. Ausg. - Schillingsfürst : Musik-&-Methodik-Verlag Kircheis, 2000. - 967 S. ; 21 cm. - ISBN 3-929501-04-X: DM 148.00
The publisher has no website so you would have to order at your bookshop. I don´t know whether it is still available. Perhaps you might contact the author who seems to have moved to the US: http://www.piano-doctor.com/

Post by **Bill Kibby** » 22 Nov 2007, 19:39

Thanks. Obviously we are aware of this, but it's the real, original Steinbergs (there were several) that we want to learn more about.

Post by **Bill Kibby** » 22 Nov 2007, 19:39

Thanks. Obviously we are aware of this, but it's the real, original Steinbergs (there were several) that we want to learn more about.

Post by **Bill Kibby** » 22 Nov 2007, 19:39

Thanks. Obviously we are aware of this, but it's the real, original Steinbergs (there were several) that we want to learn more about.

Rolf Diekmann · Post by **Rolf Diekmann** » 23 Nov 2007, 10:15

Hi kingbee,
it is a miracle that your aunt is still with us and can give us some first hand information about the Steinberg company.
My father told me another story he had heard from my grandfather. After our grand had been taken from Berlin to the city of Essen (Ruhr area) in 1955, the firm Schmitz Piano, which still exists today, did the tuning. The then co-owner Mr. Schmitz was happy to see a Steinberg piano again, because he had been distributor of Steinberg pianos in the 30´s. He had heard that when the owner, Mr. Schmitz seems to have indicated that the name was Mr. Steinberg, left Germany he was allowed to take a grand piano with him. The owner hid some cash money in the piano and tried to ship it to England, probably to start a new business over there. German boarder guards were tipped off by an unknown person and seized the money so the owner had lost everything. I don´t know whether this story really happened but great injustice has been done to your family anyway.
We can also learn something about the rise and fall of the company from the information provided by Henkel and Witter. The time between 1930 and 1935 apparently saw the peak of the company´s success. Almost 5,000 pianos left the factory during that time, compared to only about 3,000 in the 10 years before. In the late 20s and early 30s the company also extended its product range from small upright pianos for home use to grands and instruments for professionals which also reflects a higher standard in quality. But in 1936 the creditors almost seem to have waited for your grandfather and his partner to leave Germany to transfer the business to some German owner via bankruptcy proceedings. The introduction of the small Favorita piano in 1935 might indicate that the factory already was in trouble by that time. It is easy to explain why. Businesses with Jewish owners were heavily discriminated against since the Nazis had taken power in 1933 and especially public institutions with a need for professional pianos were not buying from “Jews” any more. We all know how things ended and your grandfather was at least lucky to have left the country when it was still possible.
It would be interesting what your aunt remembers about that time. Perhaps you could also ask her where the Steinberg name came from as no person of that name is mentioned in any of the sources, except the rather unreliable quote from Mr. Schmitz. Could it be that it was just a clever brand name that should sound a bit like “Steinway”? The company was a GmbH (Ltd.) whose name did not have to reflect the name of a real person. Another fact that might support this theory: as reported by Henkel, there were two trademarks “Steinberg pianos” and “Berg-Pianos”. Perhaps the second trademark was registered just in case the Steinway company enforces its trademark rights against the Steinberg name, what apparently did not happen.
Greetings

Rolf Diekmann · Post by **Rolf Diekmann** » 23 Nov 2007, 10:45

another question: could it be that Herbert Loewy had changed his name to H. B. Lowry?

lluiscl · Post by **lluiscl** » 23 Nov 2007, 18:07

Thanks, great information!! For me it's obvious that the logo has the initials of "Steinberg", and I was also wondering if they were copying Steinway... in all the ways. Because my baby grand has a very similar sound like them: open, powerful and dynamic. Really it has been for me a great discovery. As I wrote: a little jewel.

Post by **Bill Kibby** » 23 Nov 2007, 19:30

How do you know it was made in 1920?

Rolf Diekmann · Post by **Rolf Diekmann** » 24 Nov 2007, 20:23

Hi again. I have uploaded some photos of our Steinberg grand here, including one photo from my grandfather´s home in Berlin Spandau taken around christmas 1935. My father is the kid playing the piano, the other one is my uncle:
http://aycu01.webshots.com/image/35760/ ... 878_rs.jpg
http://aycu33.webshots.com/image/33752/ ... 061_rs.jpg
http://aycu28.webshots.com/image/34827/ ... 709_rs.jpg
http://aycu08.webshots.com/image/33967/ ... 699_rs.jpg
http://aycu07.webshots.com/image/33246/ ... 423_rs.jpg
http://aycu34.webshots.com/image/33553/ ... 806_rs.jpg
http://aycu29.webshots.com/image/34988/ ... 906_rs.jpg
http://aycu21.webshots.com/image/33860/ ... 372_rs.jpg
Our grand barely survived the war years in Berlin in the home of a drug addicted doctor who was about to give it away in exchange for drugs. My grandfather was able to stop the deal in the very last minute.
I would also like to address kingbee again. Would you mind sharing with us some photos of your grandfather, his partner, the Steinberg factory and its people, if there are any? I have the idea that this forum could serve as some kind of small virtual "Steinberg Berlin Museum" to commemorate this great company and its people.
Finally, I would like to add the name of my grandfather´s friend at the factory: he was Alfred Grunow. I do not know exactly what he did there but I obviously hope he is not the foreman your family suspects as being the Nazi informer.
Greetings

Rolf Diekmann · Post by **Rolf Diekmann** » 24 Nov 2007, 20:29

to answer kingbee´s question: my father is still technically the owner but the grand is in my family´s possession now and played mostly by our kids who are very talented young pianists, unlike me: I am neither young nor talented ':D'

Post by **Bill Kibby** » 24 Nov 2007, 20:44

May I add my usual plea, if you are using up space on the internet, please label your images so that someone looking for (in this case) Steinberg pianos will find them, otherwise vast amounts of internet resources are wasted.

mrn · Post by **mrn** » 06 Feb 2009, 06:47

Hello,
Looks like I'm a year or two late on this thread, but if anyone is still around: I've got a beautiful Steinberg baby grand piano, serial number 38115. It has an engraving on the inside which reads "London formerly Berlin" so obviously I assume that it was manafactured in London, but I was wondering if anyone could tell me around when this piano was made? Thanks!

Rolf Diekmann · Post by **Rolf Diekmann** » 11 Feb 2009, 08:22

Hi mrn,
your grand was made in London. The grand parents of kingbee reached London in late 1937 or early 1938. My grand No. 33958 was built 1935 or 1934. So I guess serial number 38115 must have been built in the late thirties or early forties.

lap98115 · Post by **lap98115** » 09 Mar 2009, 01:05

I'm located in the Pacific Northwest in the US and seeking info about the following:

Do you have information about a Steinberg Piano brought back from Germany by my family in the early 1950's? It is a beautiful, two-pedal baby grand, with a stamped serial number #37292. It has a logo that looks like a treble clef note with 'st.' inscribed at either end of the word 'Steinberg' centered above the keyboard. At the right end of the keyboard are the words 'Pianohaus Hirsch Munchen' in gold letters on the black keyboard cover.

This has been in our family - with little knowledge about the maker or history. Now that my grandmother is gone, we're trying to learn more about this treasured family heirloom. Can you help?

Thank You for any knowledge.

Rolf Diekmann · Post by **Rolf Diekmann** » 09 Mar 2009, 08:31

A lot has been written in this forum about the history of the Steinberg brand. The logo indicates that your grand was built in Berlin before the family and the company had to move to London. In London they changed the logo. Your grand must have been one of the last made in Germany, probably in 1936 or 1937.

lap98115 · Post by **lap98115** » 09 Mar 2009, 16:30

Rolf Diekmann wrote:A lot has been written in this forum about the history of the Steinberg brand. The logo indicates that your grand was built in Berlin before the family and the company had to move to London. In London they changed the logo. Your grand must have been one of the last made in Germany, probably in 1936 or 1937.

Thank You. Yes, I have read the previous posts and am grateful to have some history of the brand and family. Thank you for clarifying the logo - I was not aware the logo indicated the piano was built in Berlin. Was this the main location of the Steinberg factory? Is there a listing of the serial numbers of pianos made - that still exists - and would identify the timing of the serial number of my grand piano?

Also, I am interested in trying to locate someone in the US that could have knowledge and ability to properly examine, potentially provide an appraisal or valuation, and do any needed restoration work on this wonderful instrument.

thank you for your information and enlightenment!

Rolf Diekmann · Post by **Rolf Diekmann** » 09 Mar 2009, 22:56

Yes, the company seat and the factory were located in Berlin. As far as I know no list of Steinberg serial numbers has ever been published and internal lists probably have not survived, otherwise they would have been made public. Whether the owners could save any lists or other paperwork could only be answered by a family member.

lap98115 · Post by **lap98115** » 10 Mar 2009, 01:16

Thank You! I appreciate all the information and hope to do more research to learn as much of the legacy of this beautiful instrument as possible.

Phutton · Post by **Phutton** » 11 Jun 2009, 11:44

I also own a Steinberg baby grand. I'm trying to find out something of it's history. The serial number is 31513, I assume this is early enough to make it a German made piano?

Rolf Diekmann · Post by **Rolf Diekmann** » 11 Jun 2009, 19:44

Definitely, I guess your baby was made circa 1933.

rhinemeister · Post by **rhinemeister** » 08 Mar 2010, 12:40

I am reading your comments re Steinberg Pianos with great Interest. This is the first time i can find out some more details about the very beautiful piano i have. It has the word Steinberg in a golden frame with a logo with 'St' twisted in a music note above it and the serial #38495. So from the serial number and from what was written before i take the piano has been build in London? There is a lot of interesting news in this thread but does anyone have an idea about the circumstances under which the pianos had been build in London? Are they the same quality then the ones that had been produced in Berlin?

nadasquilts · Post by **nadasquilts** » 21 Mar 2010, 10:57

My sister inlaw has left me with a Steinberg Berlin Piano to sell. steinberg Berlin is clearly maked on the inside of the piano on the metal board

I have found a number on the top wooden frame 9047 it also has the encryption "especially made for hot climates", the internal frame is metal and it has the candelabras the back of the piano in covered in metal mesh

can you give me any clues to its date

Nada
Australia

Post by **Bill Kibby** » 22 Mar 2010, 01:21

I can only suggest that you read the information above.

rhinemeister · Post by **rhinemeister** » 04 May 2010, 07:45

Thanks for all the interesting posts on the steinberg company above. I have a steinberg upright piano and it is amazing what history can hide behind such a wonderful instrument. Maybe my comments on the instrument are interesting for some of you, also i want to find out more about my piano. The serial number is 38495. The serial number is printed on the hammers of the action and on the inside back of the piano. Now, it has a Langer Action where above is said the company only existetd until 1935, so my guess is the piano is from around 1935. I wonder if it is a favorita? i havent found anything else printed on or in the piano so far (i am not a piano builder), nothing like "berlin" or "london" but i have been told that the piano had originally been sold from a shop in frankfurt/main, germany "around 1940". In fact it is the same shop where i bought it a while ago, so basically it has been in the periphery of frankfurt/main all the time. from the collected information i suspect that the piano has been build in germany because i am curious if a piano from england under those circumstances would have found a way into a german shop before or during the war? i have tried to attach two photos, one with the logo and on with the logo and on the far left hand side the gear for the "moderator". i am looking forward to any comments. I can take more photos if someone wants to..

rhinemeister · Post by **rhinemeister** » 04 May 2010, 07:46

2nd photo

Post by **Bill Kibby** » 04 May 2010, 11:25

From the information above it seems that your piano was made in Germany before 1937. All I can add is that after Zender took over the Rogers name in 1963, the Steinberg name stayed with Rogers Tottenham Ltd.

annelyke · Post by **annelyke** » 17 Sep 2010, 13:29

Have been reading your posts about Steinberg Piano's, interesting. Can not find any more info online though?
We have bought a small Steinberg Favorita # 36290 a few years ago. Since nobody is finding the time to play it we would like to possibly sell it since it is just standing here doing nothing...

Could anybody give me an estimation of what we would have to ask for it? It is in quite good condition, the interior has been cleaned not long ago the outside layer has been a bit sun damaged.

thanks in advance

Pianomate · Post by **Pianomate** » 24 Sep 2010, 08:46

Please read the note at the top of the page. Nobody can give an estimate for it without inspecting any more than someone can give an estimate for a second hand car without seeing it.

fviacava · Post by **fviacava** » 17 Apr 2012, 01:14

nix.17 wrote:I have a serial number for the piano and a name inside,
it says
'Langer' on a wooden bar going across the the piano by the hammers
the serial number is '30919'
Any knowledge and advice?
Nic

" I have a baby Seinberg too with Langer 522260 in the same place you said. I live in Rio de Janeiro, Brazil. This piano is within my family since 1940 and my father bought it from a british family who was moving back to England by that time

Colin Nicholson · Post by **Colin Nicholson** » 17 Apr 2012, 13:30

Fviacava,

This is an old subject that you have added on to by clicking on post reply. It would be much easier to click on 'New Topic' and start a fresh enquiry (so save sifting through over 5 years' of enquiries to reach yours) - your enquiry may then be dealt with much more quickly.

You have also quoted a subject from another Steinberg piano - but I think this is an upright piano. Langer are just the mechanism makers, and the numbers you give dont tell us anything. Also - have you spelt 'Steinberg' incorrectly? - there are quite a few variations on piano names, so its important names are spelt correctly

Are you making an enquiry about the age of your piano, or just telling us some information for everyone to read? In most cases, photos will be needed of your piano downloaded here as serial/action/cabinet numbers are not always reliable.

Hope that helps....

Post by **Bill Kibby** » 17 Apr 2012, 13:43

If that is the Langer action number, from the rear of the hammer rail, it certainly does tell us something, and suggests that the piano was made close to 1920, so I would be interested to know what numbers are more visible inside the piano. The photo doesn't tell us what the whole piano looks like, but it seems too modern.

Post by **Bill Kibby** » 15 Nov 2012, 17:37

If kingbee is still around, I would like to contact him or her about George Schlesinger.