Blüthner 1921

[lluiscl]

Hi all. I just adquired from a german particular seller an Aliquot 190/3 cms (about 6'3") Blüthner grand, from 1921, which it's "famous" Patent action. All in original shape (excellent shape, including strings) except the hammers, which anyone replaced by Abel ones (years ago but in excellent shape also, like new ones). After reading everything about Blüthner Patent action I have regulated everything in it and I have reshaped and regulated every hammer to hit correctly the strings (most of them were out!?). After tuning I have discovered a very very personal instrument, with it's caracteristic mellow tone and long sustain... and with deep/dark bass, nasal tenor, and irregular trebles... Sure it can sound better with properly voice work but, overall I'd say, it has a notorious lack of power. I have checked all, again, that I know (I have restored two grand ago): soundboard seems to me OK, no cracks, with a little crown yet (I see downbearing). So I believe the problem is in the action/hammers: if I pluck a single string it sound louder than the full hammer. Here are some questions:
1. Has, by definition, the Patent Action less inertial/power to hit the strings than the traditional roller way?
2. In this piano the sides of the hammers are not fully parallel to the strings. Is it normal or was it a bad replaced work?
3. The hammers seem to me a little soft. Should I try with other new ones? Which ones?
4. The strings are not rusty, but they are 86 years old... Would a new set improve the power?
5. Any secrets to improve the "power" in this action?
Any comments will be apreciated.
Thanks in advance.

[PianoGuy]

Yes, the Patent Action is not as powerful as a roller, but unless you're in a concert-hall situation it shouldn't be too much of a problem.

The angle of the hammer heads is not exactly parallel with the strings, so this is normal.

Maybe your hammer-heads are 'cupped'? take a look at the striking surface of the hammer and see if the edges of the felts are likely to strike the outer two strings ahead of the middle string. Careful needling of the central part of the head can remedy this, but get it done by a technician who knows what he's doing.

[Barrie Heaton]

After tuning I have discovered a very very personal instrument, with it's caracteristic mellow tone and long sustain... and with deep/dark bass, nasal tenor, and irregular trebles... Sure it can sound better with properly voice work but, overall I'd say, it has a notorious lack of power.

How did you tune the Aliquot in ? they should be just sharp that gives the treble more of a zing

The hammers seem to me a little soft

Try doping the hammers before changing Bluthner hammers are softer than other makes

Changing hammers on a Bluthners requires a lot of shaping this can cause an uneven tone if don badly also, can make the touch uneven because if the uneven weight

Barrie,

[lluiscl]

Thanks for your answers. Tuning the aliquot hasn't been a problem: first section to higher octave and rest (according to the bridge) the same tone. Of course Aliquot improve subtle the trebles armonics... Just the oposite than the tenors (non-aliquot): this is the area with more lack of power and worse (nasal) sound and less armonics of all the scale. After checking (again) everything I have discovered in this area something inusual (in my short experience): putting a level in the beginning section of the tenor strings... all them are going down towards the bass section. In other words: the tenor section is not parallel with the correct level of the action. Of course I have reshaped subtle all the left side of the surface of the tenor hammers (!!??) to hit them correctly. Anyone with similar old model can check this? Is it a lack of crown in the soundboard/bridge of my piano or is it a normal design here?

[Gill the Piano]

There was a problem with the action standards breaking up on grands of around this age - Barrie or Pianoguy will probably know more than I - but if that IS the problem, then the regulation did seem eccentric to start with until I realised what it was. Heckschers supplied replacement action standards at that time, and probably still do, but they weren't cheap.

[Barrie Heaton]

What is the bass treble change over like it is sound like a hammer and down bearing problem

However, if the piano has a long sustain but no volume then it is a hammer problem. Photo of the hammers would help

Barrie,

[PianoGuy]

There was a problem with the action standards breaking up on grands of around this age - Barrie or Pianoguy will probably know more than I - but if that IS the problem, then the regulation did seem eccentric to start with until I realised what it was. Heckschers supplied replacement action standards at that time, and probably still do, but they weren't cheap.

I don't think the crumbling action standards featured on Patent Action Blüthners. The pre-war Schwander action Blüthners often had this problem owing to the rare alloy they used at that time.

I think the trade name was 'Crapite'....

[sussexpianos]

I remember restoring a lovely Bluthner grand. I used new Renner hammers ( hammer weight is very important on this type of action) with mahogany heads, I weighted the levers and regulated it to perfection. It played beautiful and sounded great. It brings a smile to a restorers face when you've spent a long time regulating an action and then you play it to find it moves effortlessly.
Then you wonder why you bothered when it gets put in a room and never played, and every time I tune it, I get told no one ever plays it.
mmmm

[lluiscl]

Here the aspect the hammers. They seems to me news...

[Barrie Heaton]

Hard to tell for that angle but the noses look rounded

They are newish hammers could have been toned down too much

Barrie,