New to forum and needing as much help as I can get

Big Bird · Post by **Big Bird** » 03 Nov 2007, 13:13

G'day all,

My name is Harry and I am in Melbourne, Australia.

Although I am not a piano Technitian, nor a piano player I recently purchased a Gustav Hagspiel baby Grand that I am slowly restoring.

It is about this time that experts start to tell me I am mental, but this is something I can live with.

What is annoying me is that I know very little about this brand, nor can I find any real info on it.

If there is anyone who can assist, it would be greatly appreciated.

Cheers
HARRY

sussexpianos · Post by **sussexpianos** » 03 Nov 2007, 17:43

I have rebuilt a few of these. Look out for cracks in the wrestplank.
The cases have always been very nice walnut with turned legs. The actions are fragile with very different setup, like an old Pleyel, where the checking is done through the hammer shank. very interesting but a pain to do.
good luck

Big Bird · Post by **Big Bird** » 03 Nov 2007, 23:34

You seem to be somewhat of an expert on these pianos.

Would you be able to provide some pics, or at least links to so I can get a better idea of what I am trying to achieve here.

You describe the action perfectly, please keep in mind I have simply taken this on as a project just for something to do.

I figure if I can pull it off I will have a lovely instrument for the wife and kids to enjoy, however knowing its history makes it more interesting. Especially when you consider that I am living in a city that is probably no more than 40 years older than this piano itself, and at the antipodes from its origin.

How it has ended up here I am sure would make for a very interesting story.

sussexpianos · Post by **sussexpianos** » 05 Nov 2007, 19:31

these are some photos

http://picasaweb.google.co.uk/sussexpiano/Work

Big Bird · Post by **Big Bird** » 06 Nov 2007, 07:22

Thanks for the link Sussex very inspirational.

Is that a Gustav Hagspiel Piano?

sussexpianos · Post by **sussexpianos** » 08 Nov 2007, 19:14

yes it is, I restored it a year ago but I was soo busy, I forgot to take the after photos, and the one I did before that, I lost the photos.
My friend has one of these lying in his lock up. Needs a full restoration but will look great.

Big Bird · Post by **Big Bird** » 08 Nov 2007, 20:05

If they are such nice pianos, why did the company dissappear?

Why can I find no information on them? and

Why are the surviving ones worth so little?

PianoGuy · Post by **PianoGuy** » 09 Nov 2007, 08:14

Big Bird wrote:If they are such nice pianos, why did the company dissappear?

Why can I find no information on them? and

Why are the surviving ones worth so little?

There were many hundreds of piano companies making good quality pianos who have now disappeared. Market forces, wars, bad management, lack of forward thinking, poor business and pricing strategy in what became a flooded market.

What happened to Riley, Morris, Austin, Goggomoblil, Borgward, Panhard, Stutz, Maxwell, REO.... I could go on.

They're worth bugger all these days (as are so many old pianos from the same era) because they're basically old dodos that are unsuitable for most homes' decor and all homes' heating systems. The Hagspiel also has a non-standard action very similar to and based on a contemporary Pleyel design which employed a check that pokes through a window in a specially designed hammer shank. Great and highly innovative when new, but the design was typically French (in fact I have a hunch that Jean Herrburger of Paris may well have made for Hagspiel) and inherently flimsy. Add in the problem that some makers' shanks were fashioned from cedarwood which becomes progressively brittle with time and 100+ years on will now be exceptionally weak. Repairing them is fiddly and few repairers get it right.

This is my main reason for detesting them. They're very difficult to repair, and generally speaking (though not in your case) they're owned or in the past have been owned by people who won't invest the money in them to enable a correct and lasting repair. Many therefore have been botched. When I explain to an owner why it will be expensive to repair their half dozen busted shanks, they are often reluctant to part with the cash. They bought it cheap, so they're not going to spend money on it (often because they can't afford to).

Granted a nicely repaired example can be a delightful working relic, but they never play like a modern piano so they're eminently unsuitable for learning on, and those actions are always at added risk of breaking.

There are people who choose to travel Route 66 on a Ford T buckboard, but even they will generally have a Lexus for everyday use. Using a Hagspiel or similarly ancient and non-standard grand for every day is the piano equivalent of the nutter in the T.

Buy yourself a Yamaha. You know it makes sense!

Big Bird · Post by **Big Bird** » 09 Nov 2007, 10:52

Point conceded.

And yes a Yamaha would make sense.....if I actually played the piano.

Big Bird · Post by **Big Bird** » 09 Nov 2007, 11:04

Further to my last post?

What is the point of those metal bits sticking up through the hammer shanks? and....

And I am in agreement with you about the model T, although I could see myself in something a bit more modern, like a '53 Buick.

Viva le difference!!!!!!!

PianoGuy · Post by **PianoGuy** » 09 Nov 2007, 21:08

Big Bird wrote:Further to my last post?

What is the point of those metal bits sticking up through the hammer shanks?

Those are the odd-designed checks that I mentioned. They are supposed to keep the hammer 'in check' after a strike to prevent it bouncing back and striking again.

Big Bird · Post by **Big Bird** » 10 Nov 2007, 04:46

Don't the felts under the hammers do that?

PianoGuy · Post by **PianoGuy** » 19 Nov 2007, 22:05

Big Bird wrote:Don't the felts under the hammers do that?

No.

Big Bird · Post by **Big Bird** » 20 Nov 2007, 13:00

Could you elaborate a little, less?

LOL