Hello,
I'm new to the group, but I've been reading it as a guest for a while. There's some excellent advice here!
I have a 1927 Kessels overstrung overdamped upright, which has given three generations of my family excellent service. However I suffered a flood in the house and the piano doesn't hold its tuning for more than a week, and my insurers will be asked to replace it (new for old).
The question is, what sort of budget should I be looking at for a replacement, or can anyone possibly suggest a new instrument which might be of similar quality?
I haven't had any opportunity to try out some models as there are no dealers nearby who still sell acoustic pianos, so when I go "piano hunting" it would be good to be armed with yoour thoughts.
Thanks for your help
Grenache
Replacement value?
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Barrie Heaton
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Quite a lot of dealers are no longer part exchanging Overdamper pianos any more
As to replacement any of the entry level pianos of the main brands £1.6 to £2.5 should be an improvement in the treble and bass I would not say that you will find the action a big improvement as some of the old Overdamper pianos play better than some of the pretty boxes with strings in that some of the retailers send out
All depends on how deep your pockets are
Barrie,
As to replacement any of the entry level pianos of the main brands £1.6 to £2.5 should be an improvement in the treble and bass I would not say that you will find the action a big improvement as some of the old Overdamper pianos play better than some of the pretty boxes with strings in that some of the retailers send out
All depends on how deep your pockets are
Barrie,
Barrie Heaton
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Gill the Piano
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Re: Replacement value?
Kessels were a German firm which produced rather sub-average quality entry level pianos. By 1927 all decent makers had dropped the overdamper system.Grenache wrote: I have a 1927 Kessels overstrung overdamped upright, which has given three generations of my family excellent service. However I suffered a flood in the house and the piano doesn't hold its tuning for more than a week, and my insurers will be asked to replace it (new for old).
The question is, what sort of budget should I be looking at for a replacement, or can anyone possibly suggest a new instrument which might be of similar quality?
A direct modern equivalent would be an Irmler of similar height. Contact Blüthners in Davies Street London for your nearest stockist, or they may be willing to supply direct. You will notice a marked improvement in performance over your Kessels.
Thanks for the responses so far.
I won't be trading in, as this will be an insurance replacement, so I would expect to purchase a new piano.
My house has central heating, so a new model will probebly be more comfortable there than an older one.
I'm aware that overdamped is no longer the best arrangement, but compared to what was standard production in 1927 when the piano was new, was it better or worse than the average 1927 piano?
If it was an above average model when it was new, I would expect to get an above average model in replacement.
Thanks again
I won't be trading in, as this will be an insurance replacement, so I would expect to purchase a new piano.
My house has central heating, so a new model will probebly be more comfortable there than an older one.
I'm aware that overdamped is no longer the best arrangement, but compared to what was standard production in 1927 when the piano was new, was it better or worse than the average 1927 piano?
If it was an above average model when it was new, I would expect to get an above average model in replacement.
Thanks again
In all seriousness, an Irmler is probably the way to go.
Your piano was a below average quality German piano, but the majority of pianos sold here in the '20s were British straight strung overdampers. All quality makers however had adopted overstringing and underdamper actions by 1927, and your Kessels was a cheap alternative offered to those who wanted overstringing at a price akin to home grown straight strung fare. Some would rate it as better than the straight strung average, others (certainly anyone who works with pianos) wouldn't. Build quality of cheap German pianos was shoddy and often they incorporated poorly cast rough iron frames prone to fractures, bad scale design and ridiculous bridge arrangements. The term "Jerrybuilt" was coined to describe cheaper German goods.
Old German pianos are unfairly and often wrongly thought by the lay-person to be the best. This really is not the case, and whilst it is true that most prestige brands hail from that country, there really was much poor quality stuff built there too. In the UK in the '20s we had brands which rivalled the best that Germany had to offer, and a contemporary Challen, Chappell, Rogers, Weber or Hopkinson would make any cheap German upright look laughable.
Today, the Irmler range is offered by Blüthner as a cheap alternative to the most popular Japanese instruments. Some people (arguably the same type of person who would have bought a German Overdamper early in the last Century) would choose one in preference to a Japanese Yamaha or British-built Kemble because it has a 'European' kind of sound. Build quality lags behind by a long chalk, and the majority are built under (evidently lax) German supervision in Poland. Even so, they are robust enough to cope with central heating and possibly a foreign invasion too. They're not bad pianos per-se, but there is much better around.
Same status exactly as your Kessels.
If you have a new-for-old policy you'd at least end up with a half decent and handsome piano.
Your piano was a below average quality German piano, but the majority of pianos sold here in the '20s were British straight strung overdampers. All quality makers however had adopted overstringing and underdamper actions by 1927, and your Kessels was a cheap alternative offered to those who wanted overstringing at a price akin to home grown straight strung fare. Some would rate it as better than the straight strung average, others (certainly anyone who works with pianos) wouldn't. Build quality of cheap German pianos was shoddy and often they incorporated poorly cast rough iron frames prone to fractures, bad scale design and ridiculous bridge arrangements. The term "Jerrybuilt" was coined to describe cheaper German goods.
Old German pianos are unfairly and often wrongly thought by the lay-person to be the best. This really is not the case, and whilst it is true that most prestige brands hail from that country, there really was much poor quality stuff built there too. In the UK in the '20s we had brands which rivalled the best that Germany had to offer, and a contemporary Challen, Chappell, Rogers, Weber or Hopkinson would make any cheap German upright look laughable.
Today, the Irmler range is offered by Blüthner as a cheap alternative to the most popular Japanese instruments. Some people (arguably the same type of person who would have bought a German Overdamper early in the last Century) would choose one in preference to a Japanese Yamaha or British-built Kemble because it has a 'European' kind of sound. Build quality lags behind by a long chalk, and the majority are built under (evidently lax) German supervision in Poland. Even so, they are robust enough to cope with central heating and possibly a foreign invasion too. They're not bad pianos per-se, but there is much better around.
Same status exactly as your Kessels.
If you have a new-for-old policy you'd at least end up with a half decent and handsome piano.